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Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

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Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#171

Post by EA-3167 »

5upplied_demand wrote: post #155
EA-3167 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to repeat yourself, I understood your point originally, I simply disagree with both your premise and conclusions. I don’t have the same respect for people who preach “anti-Zionism” at every turn online, I’m not that gullible.

If quitting a job is "performative" what would you consider a "non-performative" act? Ironically, you are doing your own preaching in your comments. It could even be described as "performative."

Oh God I realized the issue here, I didn't make myself clear:

Talking about doing something on a 4 month old account is not the same as doing it. I give credit to people for doing things, not claiming to do them in an anonymous forum they just joined. Cynical? Perhaps, but maybe if people were just a bit more cynical about believing any text on the internet just because it feels better to believe it, we'd be better off.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#172

Post by bossyTeacher »

"Making the world a better place." the Silicon Valley mantra that every dev out there and in here drank like a drug. People like Graham arguably have played a part in the transformation mentioned in the article. And many of us here have been directly or indirectly participants too.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#173

Post by jopsen »

buellerbueller wrote: post #57
chanakya wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be partly true, but in recent times, most western countries participated in wars like Afganistan and Iraq, and provided logistical or other support during the current Iran war.

In even more recent times, the US made war on Iran for no apparent reason at all.

There are plenty of reasons, some might even be good.

But prospects for a positive outcome where probably always slim.

IMO, it is particularly dumb when there is a full scale conventional war happening in Ukraine.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#174

Post by georgemcbay »

slowin wrote: post #8

It's up to us, as tech workers to push back against this. I quit my job at Microsoft due to their complicity with Israeli war crimes and oppression (and certainly the US government was involved too). It's tough to leave a high paying job, but I feel good about it every single day. We don't have to be cogs in the MIC machine and we don't have to build systems that terrorize people.

> It's up to us, as tech workers to push back against this.

Sadly in my experience a lot of tech workers just don't even care about the issue, let alone have the courage to push back against it.

I certainly care about it and I have immense respect for your decision, but I've worked with numerous "typical tech/dev" types in the past who later went on to work at places like Shield AI and Anduril with seemingly no compunction about the imperialistic baby-killing aspects of working directly within the military-industrial complex as long as the pay is good.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#175

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nater5000 wrote: post #69
slowin wrote: post #8

It's up to us, as tech workers to push back against this. I quit my job at Microsoft due to their complicity with Israeli war crimes and oppression (and certainly the US government was involved too). It's tough to leave a high paying job, but I feel good about it every single day. We don't have to be cogs in the MIC machine and we don't have to build systems that terrorize people.

You know, if enough tech workers at Microsoft felt strongly about these ethical issues, they could influence Microsoft's decisions internally which is probably the most effective position to be in to do so. But all well, glad you can feel good about yourself by leaving so that someone with less concern about these ethical issues can fill the void and assert their own influence on the company instead.

> if enough tech workers at Microsoft felt strongly about these ethical issues, they could influence Microsoft's decisions internally

This isn't how companies work or are structured. If you have the CEO's ear, potentially. If you don't, the only ethical thing to do is to quit. (I don't personally have an issue with the military per se. I have other issues with several tech companies which would make taking a job there something I couldn't do.)

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#176

Post by laimewhisps »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #37
slowin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a 68 working on consumer products, but it was still too much for me. Especially the revelation that Satya worked with the IDF to capture all Palestinian phone conversations and host them on Azure. Every day I woke up to go to work after I found that out, I was sick to my stomach. I eventually couldn't take it any more. I took a pay cut and I'm still in the tech industry working for a startup, and still facing e…

TIL an intelligence agency spying on a foreign adversary is human rights abuse. I would be super upset if my country of residence did the same to a neighbor sending rockets my way, would make me sick to my stomach

Israel is not the US and Palestinian civilians are not a "foreign adversary".

> a neighbor sending rockets my way, would make me sick to my stomach

Israel has been murdering Palestinians since Nakba. They literally eliminated whole cities in Gaza. I think that makes most people in the world sick to their stomach.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#177

Post by laimewhisps »

tessierashpool wrote: post #164
antonvs wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TIL an intelligence agency spying on a foreign adversary is human rights abuse. It is when it's an intelligence agency for a country that's actively committing genocide. Answer a question for me: is the lesson you took from the Holocaust something like "if there are going to be holocausts anyway, I want to be the one committing them"?

Judaism != Israel this conflation is extremely unhelpful

I don't see them conflating Zionism and Judaism. 100% of Zionists will reference the Holocaust as one of the justifications for committing genocide against the Palestinians. I think the parent is pointing that out.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#178

Post by laimewhisps »

1234letshaveatw wrote: post #82
Fraterkes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little slip of the mask here where we seamlessly transition from the perspective of an American working for an American tech company to someone living in a country neighbouring Palestine.

I would go so far as to call it a privileged perspective

I don't think the tens of thousands of innocent people, including a huge number of children, were "privileged". Same with the hundreds of thousands removed from their home during the Nakba ethnic cleansing.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#179

Post by JumpCrisscross »

SllX wrote: post #146
charlesabarnes wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it? The change was clearly made to indicate the posture of the department. Either to US citizens or to powers abroad. Even though its "just" words it indicates intent.

It was originally entitled “Department of War” and was changed after World War II for better PR. Whether it is called “Department of War” or “Department of Defense”, it’s still the same organization maintaining the same mission operating under the same budget. Personally, I view “Department of War” as more honest, because War has always been its business.

> it’s still the same organization maintaining the same mission operating under the same budget

WWII demonstrated wars of conquest don't work in the industrial age. When America and its Department of War and Navy were founded, invasion and conquest could still be done profitably. WWII showed that was no longer true–industrial machinery and skilled workers are destroyed by invasion and even base resources quickly become useless when surrounded by people who hate you. (Nuclear weapons sealed the equation.)

The Americans who fought in WWII saw that lesson firsthand and seem to have genuinely pivoted away from wars of conquest and annexation towards something closer to status quo preservation. We, of course, still went to war. But it was generally to help the current leader repel something or the other. The case in point for this is the truly devilish stuff having been shifted to the CIA's clandestine portfolio.

Renaming the DoD the DoW basically says all that clandestine stuff wasn't shameful, it's good. It's a real message being written by idiots who don't know history or war and are mastered by their own insecurities.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#180

Post by bromourd »

trhway wrote: post #122
monideas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's good you just left on your own accord, basically you fired yourself rather than wasting their time having to do it. There's an interesting dynamic with this in that the Chinese and Indian (and other foreign born/first gen immigrant) workers at big tech companies don't care about these things at all. There are some very intense ideological dynamics within big tech companies among the employee base but I alwa…

whatever the motherland's ideology/propaganda had been telling, the first gen gets to firsthand witness/experience that it were lies. After that you become were critical/unbelieving to whatever propaganda and ideology, even if it is the right ideology and propaganda this time, is being fed to you.

> even if it is the right ideology and propaganda this time,

this is legit hilarious.

As a first-gen immigrant I can say that what I witness is that yes, a lot of what I've been told about America were lies. But a quite few things actually weren't. I made a choice where to live so I accept the whole package, and on the balance it's a much better deal than pretty much anywhere else.

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