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I have a theory that software drives people insane

graybeard.ing

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Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#101

Post by michaelrpeskin »

robotnikman wrote: post #85
hliyan wrote: post #31

I was about to post this thought on the latest "We're moving from tech/architecture X to Y" post on the HN front page today, but now I feel it belongs here. I was recently chatting with a friend about how we used to do so much more with so few developers: 20 years ago, we developed mission critical, real time software (trading systems) in C++ with team of a couple of dozen developers. The core trading kernel team was…

Man I wish I was born 20 years earlier so I could be working in the golden age of developers like this (and also buy a home at a decent price)

I resemble that remark. The trouble is that I'm now too old and if I ever lose my job, I'll never find another one. No one hiring in tech wants the greybeards.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#102

Post by ambicapter »

fragmede wrote: post #74
Terr_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to "needs to be a platform" [0], another variant is "be a data company" where somehow the underpants gnomes will transform your moat of stored information into profit. [0] Read: "Needs to be pitch-able to investors as a magical 1000x growth unicorn."

it's no longer a theory. google paid millions for spirit airlines' emails and internal messages to be used as training data for their AIs.

Google already had the machine, this was just feeding the machine. 99% of companies do not have this machinery in place and probably wouldn't know where to start.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#103

Post by bluefirebrand »

anthonypasq wrote: post #73
hliyan wrote: post #31

I was about to post this thought on the latest "We're moving from tech/architecture X to Y" post on the HN front page today, but now I feel it belongs here. I was recently chatting with a friend about how we used to do so much more with so few developers: 20 years ago, we developed mission critical, real time software (trading systems) in C++ with team of a couple of dozen developers. The core trading kernel team was…

the average developer back then was much better. 50% of engineers in the average IT department produce zero or negative value. I worked at one of the largest financial institutions in the world and had coworkers that literally committed zero code for months.

> coworkers that literally committed zero code for months

That's awesome

I would much prefer to have coworkers that literally commit zero code than the monkeys I sometimes work with who commit way too much code, or just plain commit the wrong code

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#104

Post by huurtehoog »

There is a symmetrical presumption in the minds of people that the software representation in their screens is both accurate and capable of altering reality when changed. This is very often violated, obviously, and people find it jarring.

Another related problem is people will often take software at face value. When you have an inkling of what sort of dysfunction might be behind a certain buggy behavior it is much easier to cope both by finding workarounds, deciding to wait it out (my parents had an issue with some government database and I thought it suspiciously like some change propagation issue, told them to try again next week because I assumed some reconciliation on the weekend would solve it and it did) etc.

But a lay person will see error messages and take it to mean some catastrophic bureaucratic issue with their data when it's most likely just poor quality software...

I think the expectation that software is correct, accurate, and trustworthy, drives people up the wall when they are confronted with the reality of buggy and poorly implemented systems that they are required to use to function in society.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#106

Post by natdavidson »

devmor wrote: post #18
bombela wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking to the users, allowing them to show you what they are trying to do with your software, almost feels like cheating, because of how easy things suddenly appear to be when uncertainty fades away. Obviously, the number of uniquely different users has an influence, and users most often do not truly know what they need, but that's our job to tease appart. Turns out the users most often benefits from small changes t…

"What problem are we trying to solve?" is a question I have to ask constantly in corporate development environments, and rarely does anyone presenting the task to be done actually know the answer! It's very frustrating.

I wouldn’t ask that if you want to keep your job.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#107

Post by Terr_ »

ambicapter wrote: post #102
fragmede wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's no longer a theory. google paid millions for spirit airlines' emails and internal messages to be used as training data for their AIs.

Google already had the machine, this was just feeding the machine. 99% of companies do not have this machinery in place and probably wouldn't know where to start.

Yeah: Spirit Airlines didn't become ultra-awesome with the power of all its "data", it went bankrupt.

I'm not sure on how much of the flight/sales/maintenance data is being used, versus simply a big archive of emails and support calls.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#108

Post by eschneider »

Terr_ wrote: post #54

Reminds me of this 2014 post "Programming Sucks" [0], which touches on some similar issues of getting disconnected from reality in a microcosm that always "ought" to be better than it is. > All programming teams are constructed by and of crazy people [...] > The destructive impact on the brain is demonstrated by the programming languages people write. [...] > All programmers are forcing their brains to do things brai…

After doing this a few decades, one of the things I've discovered that, working 15 hours a day is insanely overrated. A shocking number of 'impossible' problems become quite easy if you just think about them lightly overnight.

Re: I have a theory that software drives people insane

#109

Post by da_chicken »

stinos wrote: post #76
bob1029 wrote: post #4

Software development untethered from the practical realities of the customer / user is what drives people insane. When developers are required to interact with the customer on a regular basis , the freewheeling effects described in this article are damped massively. The potential for insanity goes off the charts when the development team is siloed away in solitary confinement and the only interactions with the client…

For 2 larger projects I'm on, I'm both the developer and a user: on a regular basis I use the software myself. And not just for one-off tests. I really use it the way other users use it. This has provided rather deep and interesting insights in software development for these particular products and in general. Or in OP's lingo: not a lot of potential for insanity at all. Because any new idea immediately gets regarded…

In my experience, this is the only kind of software that ends up not sucking. If development is not driven by users in a very intimate way -- like being one and the same person -- then you routinely end up with necessary features only half working or splitting essential information across multiple screens or dialogs. Eating your own dog food is essential to rising above that, because only that reality will overwhelm the developers sense of the "proper" way to do things.

I believe it's the major reason that industry specific information systems are universally shitty. The user can't articulate what they need to accomplish and the developer doesn't really understand the purpose or importance of the work. Result is bad functioning or bad interface.

It's why only software like text editors and web browsers gets to be really good. Huge user base. Lots of developers involved.

Git kinda proves that it's not infallible, though.

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