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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#811

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

nostrebored wrote: post #498
PorciiVorbesc wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise So what should the disabled people do until that amazing public transport infrastructure materializes, if it ever even does for them at all? Sit at home and wait? I dislike this type of patronizing superficial handweaving advice that is disconnected from the…

Huge amounts of insolvency is due to supporting this failed urban planning experiment. Urban centers are significantly more economically productive and significantly less expensive. Carism leads people into this trap when they should be advocating for significant expansion of dense cities and transit.

>Urban centers are significantly more economically productive and significantly less expensive.

There's no enough real estate in urban centers.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#812

Post by mostly_harmless »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #566
mostly_harmless wrote: post #106

Fatality data is extremely skewed. 44% of drivers aren't using a seatbelt, 29% are speeding related, I recall alcohol involvement being about 30%, though it's not listed in the link I checked. About 20% of automobile fatalities aren't in cars but are pedestrians or bicyclists struck by cars (add another 16% if you want to include motorcyclists, though only half of which involve another vehicle). I recall the percenta…

> Fatality data is extremely skewed. 44% of drivers aren't using a seatbelt, 29% are speeding related, I recall alcohol involvement being about 30%, though it's not listed in the link I checked. How is that 'skewed'? It sounds like you're just listing dangerous things, and yeah of course dangerous things are associated with fatalities, duh. It's like saying that accidental gun deaths are 'skewed' because they're asso…

skewed in the sense that 2-5% of the population is a terrible driver and 90-95% are sufficient.

It's an outlier effect. Like the mean networth of a USA household is around $1 million dollars. But that figure alone gives you an extremely poor view of overall financial health of the median american.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#813

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

tsimionescu wrote: post #335
PorciiVorbesc wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise So what should the disabled people do until that amazing public transport infrastructure materializes, if it ever even does for them at all? Sit at home and wait? I dislike this type of patronizing superficial handweaving advice that is disconnected from the…

> So what should the disabled people do until that amazing public transport infrastructure materializes, if it ever even does for them at all? Sit at home and wait? No, the point was that instead of cities waiting until self-driving cars become an option to help get rid of terrible drivers, the cities could invest in public transportation today, and get better road safety that way.

> the cities could invest in public transportation today

Again, with what money? My city is insolvent and every extra money it gets goes to cover the massive financial hole of social programs like elderly care and handicapped people, which is growing in need.

Would you sacrifice the elderly and disabled, so people give up on needing cars to get to work?

Again, just saying "invest in public transportation" is like telling homeless people to invest in real estate.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#814

Post by IncreasePosts »

sensanaty wrote: post #208
binary0010 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there's a woman who is quite old and has a severe disability who drives regularly through our neighborhood who's car every few weeks has a new giant dent, missing fender, broken windshield, etc. It's sad we don't have a better way for people in these situations to do what they need without driving. It will be incredible to have autonomous driving just for older and or disabled drivers like this.

You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise? My mother-in-law is in a wheelchair and zooms by on the bike paths faster than I do thanks to her handbike (it's seriously insane how fast people can move with handbikes), and if she needs to travel large distances she hops onto a train instead. The best par…

Ok, I have $5000 to invest. What amazing services will be available for that lady now?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#815

Post by oldgradstudent »

xnx wrote: post #791
oldgradstudent wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all Waymo's narratives, carefully written. Not the objective truth. There will eventually be a serious or fatal crash and the investigation will shed light on what's happening inside. That will be the real test. Cruise collapsed the moment they were involved in a single serious crash. It collapsed because we suddenly found out how the company was actually run.

> Cruise collapsed the moment they were involved in a single serious crash The crash was bad, but the cover-up was even worse.

It wasn't the coverup of the crash. It's the fact that they massively exaggerated their capabilities.

For example, the reason they started with night trips was that their car could not differentiate between kids and adults so they preferred to start operation when kids are less likely to be presetn.

Not that they've told anyone about it.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#816

Post by Retric »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #721
Retric wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population level statistics let you look for statistical aberrations that you can’t detect at the individual level. Further suppose you define “good driving” as a set of behaviors but failed to include narcolepsy or similar medical conditions in your definition, then some of your “good” drivers would represent a significant risk to the general public. Thus the actual criteria the defines good driver behavior is accid…

Why would I fail to include driving with untreated narcolepsy in my definition? > as a set of behaviors I think you're thinking about "set" and "behaviors" incorrectly here. The definition wouldn't need to state "and doesn't fall asleep", because abstractions like "being attentive" and "anticipating things that might go wrong" already cover that.

> Why would I fail to include driving with untreated narcolepsy in my definition?

It’s an illiterate example not a literal one. The point is trying to state the full set of behaviors that represent safe driving will fail.

> The definition wouldn't need to state "and doesn't fall asleep", because abstractions like "being attentive" and "anticipating things that might go wrong" already cover that.

And here you failed, “Being attentive” is a proxy for the behavior you want not inherently valuable. Information saturation also results in accidents, though this is more commonly recognized in aviation the same is true of driving.

Specificity is required not just platitudes.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#817

Post by madaxe_again »

dfxm12 wrote: post #795
madaxe_again wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on where you live. Where I live there are no taxis, no public transport, no shops or services in the village - you want anything , it’s a minimum 30 minute drive to town - which includes collecting your mail, as they no longer deliver here. And yeah, it falls on neighbours. Pretty much every day I give one old lady or another a ride to town and back. It’s a pain in the ass, I am not a fucking taxi…

Where you live there are also no autonomous cars either though. Car services can pop up much more quickly/easily. This is capitalism. If there's money to be made, people will make it! OK, if you live in an area where they don't deliver mail, first, please understand that this is already an outlier of a situation for an outlier of a situation. In the context of elderly people living on their own, if my mother lived on…

There are four Teslas in the village; FSD is likely to be available in six weeks or less, as it’s about to be homologated across the EU - I’m half considering running an informal robotaxi service with ours.

And yeah, it ain’t easy for them which is why I put up with being chauffeur - many of them still have dirt floors at home, heating via an open hearth, which is insane in the 21st century in Western Europe.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#818

Post by whatevaa »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #109
mostly_harmless wrote: post #106

Fatality data is extremely skewed. 44% of drivers aren't using a seatbelt, 29% are speeding related, I recall alcohol involvement being about 30%, though it's not listed in the link I checked. About 20% of automobile fatalities aren't in cars but are pedestrians or bicyclists struck by cars (add another 16% if you want to include motorcyclists, though only half of which involve another vehicle). I recall the percenta…

> "The majority of drivers are good, but some drivers are really bad." I take issue with this. The majority of drivers are "mostly fine as long as circumstances are favorable", not "good". People for the most part do not even know about the concept of defensive driving let alone practice it. Even the best people are fundamentally complacent in basically everything they do. They zone out sometimes, they get too close,…

Autocars also currently only work in favorable conditions. Maybe driving in unfavorable conditions is just actually hard.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#819

Post by rpdillon »

tantalor wrote: post #683
rpdillon wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ride share companies use all kinds of techniques to off-board drivers that they deem unsafe. This can be as simple as tracking the driving record and accidents, but they also use the accelerometer in the driver app to assess the location of the car and what G-forces are being placed on it to figure out and predict high-risk (expensive) insurance. I don't know how aggressive this filtering is, but it is a way to save…

Selection bias and survivor bias

Well put!

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#820

Post by throw1234567891 »

Denatonium wrote: post #268
throw1234567891 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news, everyone. Soon you won't be able to switch it off.

I suspect this will just lead to people pulling the ABS fuse and losing ABS and ESC along with AEB.

I suspect people will just get on with it. They're defeating us by atrophy. Slowly, one by one.
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