NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders • Hacker News Board

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#31

Post by dsl » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:35 AM UTC

3825 wrote: post #13

dfc wrote: post #3

Title should be: "NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of handgun permit holders" You do not need to read beyond the first ten words to realize this: "The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver" In order to have a rational debate on improving gun c…

Are assault rifles licensed separately?

To possess an "Assault Rifle" in the US you need to have a Type 6 or Type 7 Federal Firearms License. You have to apply to the ATF and the State Department, with a background investigation done by the FBI. You undergo yearly inspections of inventory and records by a federal or designated state agent. The location at which the firearm is stored must be approved at the federal, state, and county level. Pretty much the only people who bother to go through all this are the folks who manufature them for the military.

What most people confusingly label "assault rifles", AR-15s, are not fully automatic or even select fire. Many states even ban you from hunting with them because the cartridges are too small to mortally wound animals with a single shot.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#32

Post by RK » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:38 AM UTC

3825 wrote: post #13

dfc wrote: post #3

Title should be: "NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of handgun permit holders" You do not need to read beyond the first ten words to realize this: "The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver" In order to have a rational debate on improving gun c…

Are assault rifles licensed separately?

In the spirit of "using words correctly", assault rifles are incredibly tightly regulated by the US federal government and various states. Assault rifles are fully automatic weapons (technically select-fire) and have not been legally manufactured for sale since 1986 and require a special federal permit. The rifle used by the person in Connecticut was not an assault rifle, but is categorized as an "assault weapon" by the government (essentially a crippled version of an assault rifle or, as others put it, a scary looking version of a basic semiautomatic rifle).

The short answer is yes, assault rifles are on a separate registry, but NY states appears to essentially ban both assault rifles and assault weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#33

Post by TomGullen » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:45 AM UTC

droithomme wrote: post #24

This will be really helpful for those that want to steal and resell guns on the black market. Hopefully the newspaper will follow up with a list of the addresses of those with costly jewelry, and narcotic pain medication prescriptions, along with schedules of the times they are at work. And yes, perfect example of the dangers of registration.

But at least they will be better able to defend themselves as their guns are robbed from them

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#34

Post by hackinthebochs » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:45 AM UTC

csense wrote: post #17

randomchars wrote: post #2

The gun scare is getting ridiculous. Things like this make people think that anyone who owns a gun might just walk into a crowded place and start shooting.

> make people think that anyone who owns a gun might just walk into a crowded place and start shooting. That's exactly how a particular side of the debate wants to frame the issue. It's a notion that "ordinary" people aren't capable of responsibly making life-or-death decisions. That guns have to be a monopoly of "extraordinary" people -- police and miliatry -- who are working for the state. (As if they aren't themse…

>That's exactly how a particular side of the debate wants to frame the issue.

And these strawman arguments being tossed around is exactly why we can't have a productive discussion regarding guns in this country. When you insist on turning the other side into a ridiculous caricature, why do you expect to be taken seriously?

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#35

Post by rhizome » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:52 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #22

genwin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if criminals use the data to avoid these houses. Then people might register in greater numbers. They might buy a gun just to get on the public list.

This may be an effect, but while some criminals want to avoid a confrontation with a gun-wielding resident... others want to steal guns. By helping criminals self-sort to the right targets for the risks they prefer, the net effect on crime/safety could be negative, by shifting break-ins to where they are most likely to succeed.

Is gun theft ever really that much of a specific goal? Seems guns are easy enough to get on the street that breaking into a house just to steal guns has a much higher risk than is normally necessary.

EDIT: Well that didn't take long to acquire a silent Reddit-style "independent-thought downvote."

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#36

Post by rorrr » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:54 AM UTC

droithomme wrote: post #24

This will be really helpful for those that want to steal and resell guns on the black market. Hopefully the newspaper will follow up with a list of the addresses of those with costly jewelry, and narcotic pain medication prescriptions, along with schedules of the times they are at work. And yes, perfect example of the dangers of registration.

This was public information before this interactive map.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#37

Post by enraged_camel » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:59 AM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #36

droithomme wrote: post #24

This will be really helpful for those that want to steal and resell guns on the black market. Hopefully the newspaper will follow up with a list of the addresses of those with costly jewelry, and narcotic pain medication prescriptions, along with schedules of the times they are at work. And yes, perfect example of the dangers of registration.

This was public information before this interactive map.

That doesn't really matter in this case. Browsing public registries manually is one thing, having an interactive map is another. The latter makes it orders of magnitude easier to do what the original commenter suggested.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#38

Post by Anechoic » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 1:59 AM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #35

gojomo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be an effect, but while some criminals want to avoid a confrontation with a gun-wielding resident... others want to steal guns. By helping criminals self-sort to the right targets for the risks they prefer, the net effect on crime/safety could be negative, by shifting break-ins to where they are most likely to succeed.

Is gun theft ever really that much of a specific goal? Seems guns are easy enough to get on the street that breaking into a house just to steal guns has a much higher risk than is normally necessary. EDIT: Well that didn't take long to acquire a silent Reddit-style "independent-thought downvote."

You'd be suprised: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/thieves_break...

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#39

Post by danso » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 2:01 AM UTC

So here's an explanation of why these stories have been done...this is not unheard of open records project and several have been done before...

1. The accountability angle is that this allows the public to see who is allowed to own guns. In some jurisdictions where regulations are strict, these stories have exposed how gun permits go to those with political favor or to those who aren't legally permitted to have a license.

2. It's hard to see how this puts the gun owners in extra danger. You really think there's a subset of crooks who desperately need a gun yet have no other legal or illegal means to attain one except to break into an arms household? Is that really the path of least resistance for burglars?

3. Wouldn't burglars look up county assessor records in order to rob the most wealthy people?

4. Ok, I'll pose the question: many other types of licenses are public record...such as who is qualified to be practice medicine or deal in real estate. Why doesn't a neighbor have the right to know if their neighbors are allowed to have firearms? (The records are for permit holders, not gun ownership) Gun permits are issued via government action...I have the right to know why police arrested my neighbor...why wouldn't I have e right to know who the police is permitting to own a handgun (especially if I have been denied a permit?)

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#40

Post by maratd » Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 2:01 AM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #36

droithomme wrote: post #24

This will be really helpful for those that want to steal and resell guns on the black market. Hopefully the newspaper will follow up with a list of the addresses of those with costly jewelry, and narcotic pain medication prescriptions, along with schedules of the times they are at work. And yes, perfect example of the dangers of registration.

This was public information before this interactive map.

Sure, but the criminal element isn't exactly known for its high IQ. By making it easily accessible, you are inviting abuse and ultimately, the political will to make that public information private.

On top of everything, the law of unintended consequences is at play here. I wouldn't worry about somebody breaking in to steal your gun ... I would worry about the neighbor who doesn't show up on the map. I can rob him without worrying about being shot.