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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#801

Post by mostly_harmless »

seizethecheese wrote: post #123
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The majority of drivers are good, but some drivers are really bad." I take issue with this. The majority of drivers are "mostly fine as long as circumstances are favorable", not "good". People for the most part do not even know about the concept of defensive driving let alone practice it. Even the best people are fundamentally complacent in basically everything they do. They zone out sometimes, they get too close,…

I disagreed with you and went looking in the article for evidence (yeah bad, epistemologically). I actually found evidence for your point. The largest cause of fatal crashes is Generally distracted or "lost in thought" (daydreaming) at 64%. That happens to most people,.

no. As per the link, that is 64% of > fatalities were "lost in thought". not 64% of > fatalities. Distracted driving is the 2nd or 3rd largest factor in fatal accidents (behind speed and alcohol I believe). Somewhere around 20-30%. Though this is for fatalities. Distribution is going to be way different for just hospitalization or property damage accidents.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#802

Post by keeda »

madamelic wrote: post #518
keeda wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wasn't so lazy I'd find and post the one where my Tesla slowed down to a stop at a red light, lulling me into a sense of security, and then without warning lurched forward and broke the red light. And this is not an isolated incident because that is one of the things Tesla is being investigated for: https://autos.yahoo.com/policy-and-environment/articles/tesl... That is not even a perception issue (I've already…

That is either an old story or you are on v12 because mine used to do it often and I haven't seen it in at least a year from my recollection. The newest versions are really good. Waymos aren't without fault either, they smash the front off cars, run into static poles, block emergency vehicles, etc; just the nature of AV development.

This was from last year, so surely the technology has changed, but you know what hasn’t changed in the meantime? The marketing around it. If Elon has been saying the same thing over the years that people have been dying, why would you trust him today?

And sure enough, the most recent red light incident (with video) is only a couple weeks old. (Edited to add, in fact it looks like a common problem with the latest update: https://quasa.io/media/tesla-drivers-say-new-self-driving-up...)

Before entrusting your life and the lives of those on the road to Elon, I would implore you to just google “latest Tesla FSD incidents” every so often for a sobering reality check.

And no one is claiming Waymo is perfect, but the statistics for Waymo are wayyyyy better than those from Tesla.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#803

Post by NoGravitas »

alephnerd wrote: post #775
demo4567 wrote: post #773

PHASING OUT HUMAN DRIVING IS ADDING A MIDDLE MAN TO GO FROM POINT A TO POINT B AND HAVING TO PAY THEM AND BE TRACKED ALL THE TIME. HOW IS ANYONE OKAY WITH THIS?

CAPS LOCK DOES NOTHING TO HELP YOUR ARGUMENT. IT IS THE FORUM EQUIVALENT OF YELLING

I AM YELLING, CARL!

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#804

Post by estearum »

kelipso wrote: post #787
estearum wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but you don't get in car accidents or near-accidents often. Ergo your brain becomes wired for the 99.9999999% of driving that is completely uneventful. Hunters are a self-selecting group of people who enjoy the activity you describe. If you don't like it or can't do it, you just don't do it. Virtually every single adult in America has to drive, however, to live a functional life.

You are avoiding cars constantly when driving with a non-zero amount of traffic. Way more incidents than predators in the savanna while doing persistence hunting.

Not sure what you're arguing.

Your brain gets used to in-distribution events.

Car accidents (and the conditions that cause them) are out-of-distribution events.

It's that simple.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#805

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

toasty228 wrote: post #623
PorciiVorbesc wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think you're coping, like most car owners, we bought the propaganda of freedom &Co When the bus (in your example) runs on a hourly schedule, while your car is always there when you spontaneously need it, then that freedom is real and not just propaganda. I did this type of commute before where I had to catch the bus to work, which was also once every hour, and the anxiety during my early morning routine to not mis…

Then let's keep on fucking the planet, and let's keep on moving 70kg of meat over 30km per day on average with 2500kg of steal, 400kg of battery, etc. super efficient and sustainable!

YES, unless you wanna build me public transport from your tax money, let's! If you want people to stop fucking the planet with driving, then you need to stop fucking their lives with hellish public transport commutes and improve it till it's bearable.

I have only one life on this planet, and it's much shorter than the planet's life, therefore I need to make it a good and comfortable one while it lasts not sacrifice it for nothing, while China and India keep lighting the planet on fire and my boss is chauffeured in luxury cars and has 3 vacation homes. You need to (have the wealthy) lead by example and sacrifice themselves too before you ask the same from the working class!

If you wanna save the planet, then first talk to China and India, talk to politicians and corporate billionaires with private jets and yachts making a killing from forcing everyone into office 5 days/week and dodging taxes so that cities lack funds for infrastructure, not to the working class keeping the world running and feeding their families.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#806

Post by OroPla »

drob518 wrote: post #792
OroPla wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the problem with having the answer be the same as when lightning strikes down and kills people or a flood happens? Sometimes damage happens without anyone being responsible.

Because a car killing somebody means there is someone (the owner, “driver,” manufacturer, etc.) for the victim’s family to sue. And while anyone can bring a lawsuit against anyone at any time, regardless of how frivolous, you can’t sue God for an act of God.

You can't sue a bus passenger or people a bus killed. And if there was no driver since the bus drove autonomously, you wouldn't have anyone to sue. I don't understand why this is a problem. Just treat it the same way you do flood damage or lightning.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#807

Post by kelipso »

estearum wrote: post #804
kelipso wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are avoiding cars constantly when driving with a non-zero amount of traffic. Way more incidents than predators in the savanna while doing persistence hunting.

Not sure what you're arguing. Your brain gets used to in-distribution events. Car accidents (and the conditions that cause them) are out-of-distribution events. It's that simple.

That’s not how the brain works. It is evolutionary adapted to stay alert for out of distribution events.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#808

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #786
binary0010 wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans do not care about biklanes or modifying their cities in that way, they want driverless cars and more large multilane highways/roads so that's what we will get. Americans don't like walking/biking and love cars. It's not really learned helplessness it's just what the vast majority of our country wants. Remember the majority voters voted someone in who specifically campaigned on getting out of any climate cha…

Then why is Amtrak breaking ridership records?

People are poor because of the economy and gave up on their car loans?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#809

Post by pfdietz »

fragmede wrote: post #584
pfdietz wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only about 1 in 8 people globally lives in a large (> 10 million people) city. Most people who live in cities are in cities with Exactly how many live in cities at all is determined by where you drawn the cutoff at which it's no longer a city.

And my answer to that is, if your area where people live isn't able to support a bus line, it's not a city. That means there's a lot of reality big towns out there.

It's quite amazing then how cities didn't exist until buses were invented.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#810

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

webdood90 wrote: post #284
PorciiVorbesc wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise So what should the disabled people do until that amazing public transport infrastructure materializes, if it ever even does for them at all? Sit at home and wait? I dislike this type of patronizing superficial handweaving advice that is disconnected from the…

The point is that society's priorities are messed up. Throwing your hands in the air and taking the path of least resistance is never going to lead to change. The world is literally on fire but the average person simply doesn't give a shit because they don't want to be inconvenienced.

>The point is that society's priorities are messed up.

People's priorities are putting a roof over their heads and food on the table for the family. Everything else is secondary.

> Throwing your hands in the air and taking the path of least resistance is never going to lead to change.

NO, but you and him are yet to provide a better solution that leads to an actual immediate change for the better. People aren't gonna sacrifice their lives and become martyrs for a moral cause that does nothing in the end except make them poor while other people and countries get rich while fucking the planet even harder.

Europe(EU) sacrificed it's manufacturing industry and a lot of its middle class jobs along with it, in order to "save the planet", and then India and China's politicians and billionaires said "lol, thanks for your sacrifice and outsourcing to us, now we have even more headroom for pollution and growing our manufacturing industries, making you dependent on ours and giving us leverage over you on the international stage; thanks suckers".

>The world is literally on fire but the average person simply doesn't give a shit because they don't want to be inconvenienced.

People care more about themselves and their family than the planet. Especially when China and India are lighting the planet on fire and billionaires and politicians are taking private jets and yachts to moralize the poor on saving the planet. Again, you need to have them lead by example first.

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