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NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

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Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#21

Post by AnthonyMouse »

subsystem wrote: post #12
bmmayer1 wrote: post #7

In theory there should be nothing wrong with putting already-publicly available data online in a format digestible by the general public. The issue is that we put permit holders on a public list in the first place. These are law abiding citizens who have registered their guns legally. Making the information public, especially in stunts like this, does nothing but dissuade people from registering their firearms to avo…

"Law abiding citizens" follow the law even if it doesn't please them.

"Law abiding citizens" follow the law, tautologically. But if you want more citizens to be law abiding, one of the best ways is to make the laws less objectionable and easier to abide.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#22

Post by gojomo »

genwin wrote: post #18
jkubicek wrote: post #15

This is absolutely terrible. This is a perfect example of the persecution gun owners fear when they're asked to register their weapons. We need more gun registration and exposing data like this does nothing but hinder that goal.

Not if criminals use the data to avoid these houses. Then people might register in greater numbers. They might buy a gun just to get on the public list.

This may be an effect, but while some criminals want to avoid a confrontation with a gun-wielding resident... others want to steal guns. By helping criminals self-sort to the right targets for the risks they prefer, the net effect on crime/safety could be negative, by shifting break-ins to where they are most likely to succeed.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#23

Post by edj »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #7

In theory there should be nothing wrong with putting already-publicly available data online in a format digestible by the general public. The issue is that we put permit holders on a public list in the first place. These are law abiding citizens who have registered their guns legally. Making the information public, especially in stunts like this, does nothing but dissuade people from registering their firearms to avo…

What's more, this may well provide data for would-be gun thieves to use to acquire illegal weapons.

Now that they have a convenient list, they can stake out these locations, wait for the residents to leave, and break in to begin their search for guns they know will be inside.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#24

Post by droithomme »

This will be really helpful for those that want to steal and resell guns on the black market.

Hopefully the newspaper will follow up with a list of the addresses of those with costly jewelry, and narcotic pain medication prescriptions, along with schedules of the times they are at work.

And yes, perfect example of the dangers of registration.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#25

Post by icegreentea »

3825 wrote: post #13
dfc wrote: post #3

Title should be: "NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of handgun permit holders" You do not need to read beyond the first ten words to realize this: "The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver" In order to have a rational debate on improving gun c…

Are assault rifles licensed separately?

True assault rifles are some of the most difficult things to get your hands on. All automatic (which include burst fire) weapons count as machine guns under the National Firearms Act, and are highly regulated. No machinegun made and registered after 1986 can be legally transferred between civilians. Amongst other difficulties and regulation, that restriction means automatic weapons typically sell for enormous amounts.

The term you're looking for is 'assault weapon' which is a generally poorly defined term. Under the terms of the previous federal assault weapon ban, an assault weapon (rifle) is any weapon that has in addition to detachable magazines (a "clip" in popular culture), has at least two of the following features: a folding or telescoping stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor, and/or muzzle mounted grenade launcher, as well as AR-15s, TEC-9s, Uzis, and AK-47s - those models being specifically named and banned.

Since we are looking at New York specifically, then the following apply. Rifles and shotguns ("long guns") do not require a state permit for purchase, nor registration, nor a license. Handguns require all three. There are additional restrictions on handguns that will typically limit their licensees to using and carrying them for sport. New York has an assault weapon ban in place, effectively continuing the expired Federal ban.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#26

Post by droithomme »

jacquesm wrote: post #6
coryl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence or any cases of criminals doing informational background searches on their targets?

Burglars routinely monitor the obituaries for dates of funerals to break into houses while the funeral is taking place. For instance: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20120330/NEWS01/703309874 But there are many more examples of that. For criminals information is a competitive edge, just like for everybody else. The safe bet is that they exploit that edge to the maximum of their abilities to increase their rewards.

This is definitely a huge problem in many areas. I've known around a dozen people whose houses were robbed while they were at a funeral. Last funeral I went to, recently, the funeral director told the family members they needed to arrange for people to housesit during the services. They did and two of them were then faced with burglars trying to break in.

There are organized crime gangs that read obituaries and make it their business to take your stuff.

If you are flying out of state to bury your spouse or parent, the risk is greater. In two cases I know of, a moving truck arrived as soon as they left for the airport and took absolutely everything.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#27

Post by DrJokepu »

genwin wrote: post #18
jkubicek wrote: post #15

This is absolutely terrible. This is a perfect example of the persecution gun owners fear when they're asked to register their weapons. We need more gun registration and exposing data like this does nothing but hinder that goal.

Not if criminals use the data to avoid these houses. Then people might register in greater numbers. They might buy a gun just to get on the public list.

From what I've gathered from various friends and acquaintances working in law enforcement and criminal justice, the vast majority of criminals are really not the kind of intelligent folks who would do such research. That's why they're criminals. The sophisticated type you see in television is very rare.

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#28

Post by protomyth »

Despite recent events, the worst year for mass gun shootings was 1929. Looking at the 2011 preliminary data[1] death by Assault (homicide) dropped out of the top 15 causes of death in the USA. It is still more dangerous for parents to own a swimming pool as opposed to a gun. We don't teach actual risks and pay for it daily.

Stunts like this just paint targets on people. Gun owners will be targets for theft of guns. Non-gun owners will be targeted by other types of criminals. Neighbors might learn some things about their neighbors. Overall, the incentive to register anything goes down.

edit: add footnote 1) http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf

Re: NY newspaper runs interactive map with names, addresses of gun permit holders

#30

Post by nekojima »

coryl wrote: post #5
mkarazin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And makes it easier for criminals to avoid houses with guns, thus putting the non gun population at risk.

Is there evidence or any cases of criminals doing informational background searches on their targets?

A number of professional footballers in the UK had their houses broken into during matches they were playing in, in the last two or three years. In some cases repeatedly, after new items were purchased to replace those stolen, the house was broken into again, during another match.

I'd guess home matches are best, because their wife/gf/partner will be more likely to go to the stadium, rather than for an away match, when their wife may not travel.

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