I'm certain that small startup Shopify could not afford to build native applications before AI became a thing. Thank god Sam Altman stole all the information in the world so that small family companies like this can finally have software too.
Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
291–300 of 963 posts
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also a recency bias, where you ignore how valuable some decision was in the past and ignore the fact that you maybe wouldn't even get to the place you are if "you made a different decision in the past".
I can't count how many times I've said "this is really bad, I it is worth rewriting to fix all the issues", only to discover that there were good reasons for all the past decisions and so we end up with the same mess as before - except that now I know what it must be that way. Not always, but very often people in the past had good reason for what they did.
Those are the comments that should persist in the code. I hate when the AI edits and removes my "why" comments. I want the refactor to make it less messy but keep why it's that kind of mess.
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true in a very real sense – models can help you build native apps very quickly, no question. But how do you keep them from drifting apart from one another as you add/change features or design? Right now, there isn't much tooling for this. React Native's advantage of having a single source of truth for code hasn't quite gone away yet, imo.
Android and iphone emulator MCP, model compares screens, flags is theres drift? Something like that I’d guess
But the screens should look different, right? That's the point of building separate iOS vs. Android versions is to make each version "native" to its platform. The feature-set should be the same, but the interfaces can diverge.
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#294wow, what about electron.js the bloated cross-desktop GUI, can LLM either totally modernize wxWidgets(to avoid Qt's license mess), or create some light-weight cross platform GUI widgets to make GUI easy on windows/macos/linux that is not resource heavy?
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#295We did the same thing - had 90% of it overnight. Then spent a few days in the background tweaking for polish. Our app is smaller, and has about 15-20 screens. I started at about 12:30am by giving codex a goal and it inventoried every screen based on the react native code, then created android and iOS directories, used maestro (I had already set up this tooling for a previous personal app build a few weeks prior), and…
And people say AI isn't taking SWE jobs...
The optimistic outlook:
Just like this has made Web devs into Mobile devs, so could Mobile devs leverage AI to work in Web shops.
I'm not an optimist but there could be an increase of available apps being created which would still keep people employed. Theoretically the cost of creating an iOS app for a company without an engineering team dropped from several hundreds of thousand to a few thousand or hundreds, which could be paid out to a freelancer with AI. More people would go into freelancing for industries which were not contemplated before due to cost.
But I'm not an optimist.
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm skeptical. Pre-ChatGPT the models didn't understand tool calls or file editing so you couldn't really do targeted edits. So I really am not sure what they mean by this. I mean, it's not impossible - I wrote a "coding agent" with GPT-3. It sucked balls. The idea was you write a Markdown spec file and the tool then compiled it to an equivalent source code one shotting it every time, but it hardly worked at all. The…
The GP misquoted the article. They actually wrote: > Shopify has been using LLMs to build software since 2021 GitHub Copilot integrated into VS Code started becoming available that year. It’s definitely not a coding agent, but it was certainly LLM-assisted programming.
Ah, that makes more sense.
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true in a very real sense – models can help you build native apps very quickly, no question. But how do you keep them from drifting apart from one another as you add/change features or design? Right now, there isn't much tooling for this. React Native's advantage of having a single source of truth for code hasn't quite gone away yet, imo.
"GPT-8 Galaxia - figure out where our iOS and Android apps show different doohickeys and fix them"
> You're completely right to call me out on this. Here's the real smoking gun: the iDoohickey isn't a real API interface on iPhone
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#298Models have gotten a lot better at generating native iOS apps. The main appeal of RN was being able to leverage your web devs for mobile dev. that's what I did at my last company. And it's fine for a startup, but eventually you want dedicated native engineers bc each platform really deserves its own technical masters who can optimize for it. But now that all code is generated, there's little upside to having an RN ap…
This is true in a very real sense – models can help you build native apps very quickly, no question. But how do you keep them from drifting apart from one another as you add/change features or design? Right now, there isn't much tooling for this. React Native's advantage of having a single source of truth for code hasn't quite gone away yet, imo.
Tests? Not being flippant, but that strikes me as the new surface to maintain to get what RN used to offer
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
And there's no proprietary IP in your company's app that you don't mind being sucked up into the training data?
Frankly there’s more likely to be proprietary IP in the server side code than in mobile apps.
True, but shops are exposing everything to Claude or Open AI. It's akin to outsourcing all manufacturing to subcontractors in China. That was cheaper, but extremely short-sighted. Now so many products have cheap Chinese knock-offs that are nearly the same as the originals because the subcontractors made both.
Re: Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin
#300We don’t hold on to a decision just because it was successful at the time. When a core assumption changes, we’re willing to go back and ask whether it’s still the right call. LLMs changed one of the core assumptions behind our 2020 decision, so we reevaluated our mobile stack from first principles. What we found led us back to native.
They created a mess in 2020 and hopped on over to a job at FAANG and now a fresh batch of Waterloo graduates want to do the same - maintaining somebody else's turds is beneath a Waterloo graduate on his way to becoming a manager who never touches code ever again :)
So it goes.