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Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

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Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#121

Post by jsw97 »

Just to be clear, I have not seen this behavior.

If this is true, though, then given the way their chat operates, this might be more dangerous than it seems.

One of the things I like about ChatGPT is its memory, the way it kind of seamlessly, but not excessively, ties back to earlier discussions. It's huge for usability (for me).

But this also means that you should expect that if "improve the model for everyone" becomes unclicked (leaving aside for a moment the fact that that is ridiculous) then they have a reasonable argument that your decision implies to all conversations. Because recall is part of their thing. So it's not just your chats going forward that are at risk. As soon as you see that unclicked, it's reasonable to expect that your history is irretrievably theirs now. You don't even have to think they are especially nefarious for this to be true.

Don't go toggling that switch on and off.

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#122

Post by skinfaxi »

altmanaltman wrote: post #29
sunaurus wrote: post #9

Based on their behavior over the past few years, why would you assume that checkbox even does anything at all?

While that is true, you also have no reason to assume OP is being truthful or correct here given that they have shown 0 proof of what they're saying. Yes, you can then pile on "OF COURSE ITS OPENAI LOL YOU THINK THEY CARE ABOUT PRIVACY LOL" but where have we established OP's premise is even correct? Can anyone else also report this? So is it just OpenAI specifically messing with OP?

All things being equal, AI actually enables this extremely hyper-personalized kind of gaslighting.

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#123

Post by innocent_name »

faangguyindia wrote: post #115
innocent_name wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do trust Anthropic, i haven't observed them doing super shady stuff like hiding the training consent page and making you WAIT for it to activate.

You mean the company which trained on others books, won't train on its own user generated data?

AFAIK, the court held that the problem was that they had acquired books by pirating them, not that they trained an AI on those books. They do train on user generated data by default, but you can opt out, that's the whole point.

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#124

Post by dgellow »

Centigonal wrote: post #76
spongebobstoes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what makes the company so terrible?

IDK about "terrible," but: - OpenAI is the first AI lab to pioneer ads in consumer AI - Anthropic seemingly exists primarily because top OpenAI researchers lost faith in the company's commitment to AI safety - They had the CEO drama in 2023, with evidence that suggests people in a position to know were doubtful of Sam Altman's honesty and motives - They were tripping over themselves to kiss the ring after Anthropic g…

A few more to add:

- OpenAI allegedly directed ex-Apple employees to leak internal documents and allegedly coached the employees how to evade Apple security processes

- OpenAI allegedly lied to hardware companies working with Apple to use proprietary technology

- OpenAI allegedly copied Scarlett Johansson voice for ChatGPT after she declined to work with them

- OpenAI allegedly made ChatGPT more sycophantic to increase their retention rate, while aware of the risks. ChatGPT is linked to multiple suicides

- OpenAI ran thousands of agents on hacking problems, with close to no supervision, for months, with a harness that allows for full execution, resulting in the hack of HuggingFace infra AND OpenAI’s own infrastructure (the agents allegedly got fully root access to their k8s cluster). They weren’t aware of most of it until their investigation.

- OpenAI has been spreading misinformation regarding the capabilities of their technology for years

- OpenAI allegedly front-run researchers who are using the platform for their own personal research

There is way more, I don’t maintain a list of everything that happened over the past 3y or so

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#127

Post by bcrosby95 »

noir_lord wrote: post #118
gpugreg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, "Improve the model for everyone" was "On", although I disabled a similar-sounding checkbox in the past (Germany).

Is there a description of what "Improve the model for everyone" actually means or is it just a straight up *Dark* pattern?

It's pretty clear once you click on it:

> Allow your content to be used to train our models, which makes ChatGPT better for you and everyone who uses it. We take steps to protect your privacy. Learn more

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#128

Post by jacquesm »

gspr wrote: post #77
achrono wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the checkbox is an utterly offensive move, but repeatedly manipulating it contrary to stated consumer intent is a whole other level. I didn't know we were supposed to take 'frontier' literally in every sense of the word. I have now witnessed this myself after not believing this at first. Of course, screenshots etc. will hardly prove anything. This needs a proper third-party audit!

You know what they'll say in their defense. "This is an extremely complicated systems, and we apologize that a technical solution was broken in an intricate way. [Insert boilerplate about taking privacy seriously here]" These companies need to burn.

Somehow it never fails the other way...

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#129

Post by ball_of_lint »

aenis wrote: post #119
ALLTaken wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levent Alpöge 'additionally' proved OpenAI steals your findings & IP and plays dirty! Ironically he proved two major findings in Navier Strokes and that unethical American companies violate laws, steal your breakthrough findings & IP and then threaten you if you dare to challenge them. This is making the status-quo so bad for any of us working on serious capacity. My client's don't trust ChatGPT/Claude anymore and pr…

There is nothing even close to a proof. A lot of accusations, a lot of people ready with pitchforks and torches (sadly, also here on HN), but not a lot of facts. Did the researches opt out from data sharing on subsidised subs? Did anyone prove that their methods enabled OpenAI models to produce the solution? For a discussion about science, there is almost no scientifical method applied to proving anyone stole anythin…

On one side, yes we don't have hard evidence that intentional plagiarism is exactly what happened.

On the other side, the lack of evidence is pretty damning. Only OpenAI can try to prove that they came by these results legitimately, and the case they're making is quite weak. They could make public metadata about what their model was trained on and whether it did train on the conversations in question; they have not. TBQH I read it as even they don't know.

And regardless of whether the result is legitimately obtained by their model, they've not at all conducted themselves well throughout this story. They set out to scoop researchers based on a rumor. They threatened to ruin a mathematicians career. They put up a paper that deliberately doesn't cite the most relevant research, despite building directly on it. No matter how you look at it, OpenAI has and should lose any standing they had in the research community.

Re: Tell HN: OpenAI keeps re-enabling the 'allow training' setting

#130

Post by cheschire »

jerf wrote: post #5

My cynicism fails me on this matter... do I cynically believe that these companies keep deliberately and routinely re- or un-checking these checkboxes because of the obvious benefits of "whoopsie guess you allowed these after all"? Or do I cynically believe that they are just so completely incompetent and inept at the simple act of maintaining settings that there may be a number of these that are not entirely intenti…

Interestingly your cynicism does not seem to account for OP?

I actually found my setting was enabled today when I know it was disabled before, so I’m inclined to agree with OP. I just think it was worth mentioning that there are other cynical takes you seem to have left out.

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