Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives • Hacker News Board

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#741

Post by IslandRebel » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 2:53 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #685

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

What we have going on here is a false dichotomy, with one car-dependent tribe wanting one type of car whilst another car-dependent tribe wants another type of car. Across Europe they have 2030 targets to get half the journeys in urban areas made with 'active travel', which means walking or cycling. Even the UK has such absurd targets that are no longer so absurd. Europe is out of hydrocarbons and Hormuz is closed. Th…

Pretending that owning a car is like an addiction because you saw an overweight woman and her children and then made a bunch of supposition afterwards isn't something anyone should take seriously. I've seen fat people use trains and buses, I am sure she can make it to the nearest bus station on foot.

I used to be an avid cyclist and used a lot of public transport in the past.

I no longer cycle nearly as much because I was fed up of having to carry a bunch of kit on my back (lock, repair kits, allen keys, water proofs), having to deal with the wind, wet and cold and often you will have minor accidents if you commute enough, you just have to have someone's dog runs out in front of your in the cycle path, someone steps out between two vehicles without looking and you end up hitting the deck.

Public transport IMO sucks unless you live near an urban area. Cycling more than say 15 miles is untenable for commuting. I saw this as someone that spent an entire summer riding centuries (100 mile routes).

After I got my license it given me a lot of freedom. Now I cycle when I want to, not because I have to an enjoy it much more as a result. I enjoy being able to have the choice to either drive, cycle or walk. I also use by vehicle for offroad driving, day trips, camping etc. It gives me a lot of freedom to explore places.

Having a motorised form of transport that you own and lets you get where you want quickly, comfortably and safely is a major improvement to many and thus why many people are willing to forego the expense.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#742

Post by Lifetrajectory » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 2:54 PM UTC

In Germany Waymo will only be allowed to use self-driving cars starting in fall 2026

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#743

Post by jodrellblank » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

webern777 wrote: post #677

sosborn wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no practical reason we can't have good public transit AND better cars.

It is a nice bumper sticker slogan but public transportation operates at a loss almost universally. It is really a problem with liberal democracy. Everyone has different values, everyone thinks their subjective values are the morally correct values and being so everyone should pitch in and help pay for the subjective values because they are morally correct. To not is "immoral". This circular logic is half the posts o…

> "public transportation operates at a loss almost universally."

So do highways! Nobody makes a profit from a $50,000 crossing or a $250,000 4-way traffic light intersection, or a $1M road resurfacing, or a $100M bypass, or a $1Bn highway on-ramp and rebuilding. (Except when officials grift the public money to their mates' construction companies).

It really is a problem with capitalist comments that the only things which are acceptable are things which make a profit - except for their personal cars which should be taxpayer subsidised.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#744

Post by tim333 » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 2:57 PM UTC

cbondurant wrote: post #125

I'd much rather all of the resources that are going into autonomous cars was instead going into proper public transit infrastructure. Cars are so hopelessly space and energy inefficient, and I hate driving them. If I could get around by bus, light rail, bike, and all of the wasted city space devoted to parking could be turned into more housing and amenities, that would be great. I think it would be meaningful to also…

Google says annual public transport spend is ~£300bn. If you put all the self driving resources into it it wouldn't make a huge difference. Waymo like vehicles may also help with the last mile issues, giving disabled access to pedestrianised areas and the like.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#745

Post by My_Name » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 2:58 PM UTC

oersted wrote: post #726

My_Name wrote: post #508

I have said for a while now that self driving cars do not need to be perfect. They will have accidents, of a different type than humans have, and sometimes they will be ones that most humans would avoid. What they do need to be is better than humans overall, and then it would make sense for them to be allowed onto the road. When they get far safer than humans, phasing out of human driving will make sense. They reache…

Yes but in practice the pushback is more about the shift on who is held responsible and who has the control to prevent a crash. People understandably prefer to keep control of their own safety, even if on average they are worse at it. Because individuals that do care about safety can actually do many things to lower the risks well below the statistics, and likely remain much better than self-driving. There’s also the…

I completely agree. I feel a lot of pushback is likely to be coming from insurance companies who very much like being able to hike up your premium because they have decided that you as a person are a bad risk. When the entity that had the accident is some software and sensors made by a company, they can't do that.

I disagree that the safety concerns have to be on an individual basis, no other driving regulation works on that basis. They are based on the statistical likelihood of an overall reduction in damages or risk. You as an individual might be safe driving 10-20mph over the limit, but the limit is there to cover a variety of road conditions and road users.

The self driving system just has to fulfil those criteria, being that overall having it is safer for the average road user than not. It, also, is not the fast-growth tech companies that decide that.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#746

Post by ThrowawayTestr » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 3:04 PM UTC

anonymars wrote: post #158

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Always has been https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#:~:text=Ple...

Yes but it got way worse when reddit made the mobile site inoperable without an account.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#747

Post by UpsideDownRide » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 3:05 PM UTC

johnfn wrote: post #281

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

As a biker, I've had human drivers intentionally try to drive me off the road or hit me. Neither driver education nor higher test standards will solve that problem.

Education could help solve that problem but It wouldnt be of the driver kind

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#748

Post by soco » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 3:10 PM UTC

lynx97 wrote: post #516

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

Don't forget the elderly. They are responsible for a crash in roughly $age% of the cases. So a 66 yo person is the reason for a crash in 2/3 of the cases... I hear Greece has a mandatory doctor visit after 65 of so every 2 years. Since that is hard to politically get through in other countries apparently, AVs might save some lives here if made mandatory of the elderly.

Switzerland does that over 65 years old - every 2 years you have to do the visit. But because it's with your own family doctor, everybody is basically passing the test. It still needs a workable solution...

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#749

Post by ninalanyon » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 3:12 PM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #561

uv-depression wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put the trains where the people are, not in the middle of vast unpopulated stretches. Comparing land area is misleading and unhelpful.

Trouble is, when you need to get to the middle of nowhere is when you need transportation. If you stay within the densely populated areas where the people live you can walk. That's why people stopped living in rural areas after all; so that one didn't have to rely on transportation. Don't forget that rural areas had trains back before the urbanization movement! Passenger rail in the US died out because people moved c…

If it's a rare enough event you can just rent a car.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#750

Post by oldgradstudent » Thu, Sep 10, 2026, 3:17 PM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #517

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

> Waymo says it has 170 million miles and I found 2 fatal accidents it was involved in (fault doesn't matter as fault is not included in the other stat either) I suppose you can claim fault doesn't matter. But if you read the narratives of both fatal incidents, they are so clearly not the Waymo's fault that I don't see how you can hold it against them. In the first [1], the Waymo was stopped at a red light when the c…

These are all Waymo's narratives, carefully written. Not the objective truth.

There will eventually be a serious or fatal crash and the investigation will shed light on what's happening inside. That will be the real test.

Cruise collapsed the moment they were involved in a single serious crash. It collapsed because we suddenly found out how the company was actually run.