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Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

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Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#281

Post by notpushkin »

mschuster91 wrote: post #191
kmeisthax wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying this as someone who has had repeated and ongoing issues with WP Engine as a hosting platform: no, Matt Mullenweg was not even valid in his basic assumptions motivating his lawsuit against WP Engine. The idea that a hosting platform is leeching off the WordPress ecosystem is absurd, for two reasons: 1. WordPress is free and open source software, developed under reciprocal licensing (GPL). Hosting companies…

> WordPress is free and open source software, developed under reciprocal licensing (GPL). Hosting companies are neither legally nor morally obligated to contribute back to WordPress core. Many an old open-source project ran into this trap. Elasticsearch is one good example. Back when the old GPL era open-source projects were invented, the idea of third parties taking open-source software and just making a shitload of…

Jimmy Wales is the co-founder and president of Fandom, so I think it’s in a pretty similar position to WP.com in that regard.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#282

Post by Yapping7880 »

easyThrowaway wrote: post #253
kmeisthax wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying this as someone who has had repeated and ongoing issues with WP Engine as a hosting platform: no, Matt Mullenweg was not even valid in his basic assumptions motivating his lawsuit against WP Engine. The idea that a hosting platform is leeching off the WordPress ecosystem is absurd, for two reasons: 1. WordPress is free and open source software, developed under reciprocal licensing (GPL). Hosting companies…

I'm still wondering who's the target audience for something like Gutenberg. - A bastardized version of React whose state is stored in...HTML comments and WordPress shortcodes. It's extremely brittle and even simply updating an article can put its content into an unrecoverable state. - Some components are done in javascript client side, some are done PHP server side, there's virtually no clear idea when to use which.…

They were targeting Medium-users with Gutenberg, which in my opinion was a misread of the growth and direction of WordPress. Even after blogging died, WordPress was still always focused on being a blogging platform. Back in the early proposal/RFA days of Gutenberg, the debate between Mullenweg, the WP Core steering team, and most vocal of the WP development community was really whether there was this "silent majority" of WP users, or whether the software should cater better to developers/power users. Mullenweg, and most of the other core steering members, believed that the silent majority were interested in an easier WYSIWYG visual editor, and they used SquareSpace and Medium as the benchmarks. Even in 2017 this was kind of justifiable, online writing/publishing didn't really seem like it was being hollowed out like it would be just a few years later.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#284

Post by voakbasda »

chii wrote: post #199
tshaddox wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert, but I suspect that a pattern of lashing out against opponents during in a high stakes business dispute would not typically be considered clinically significant on its own. I don't know how you or others in this thread are intending to use terms like "mental illness" or "mental health issues," but generally I don't think they're appropriate unless you're talking about problems where there's evidence of…

I dont know any clinical information, but some (many, in fact) people assume mental illness when someone behaves in such a way that they believe their world view and mental model is absolute and fight to the last tooth and nail against any opposing view points (to the detriment of their own well being and others).

Well then, the founding fathers of the United States were all mentally ill. All of the greatest scientific minds that made breakthroughs in their field are mentally ill.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#285

Post by voakbasda »

dofm wrote: post #256
opiotrek wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was unprofessional for years, see the firings of 2024

Right but that is part of this long rolling episode that started with the WP Engine thing, which is really when he began to act in an unhinged way. That is really when the sudden shift in his public manner happened. It has been going on that long. He should have stepped back as either Automattic CEO or Wordpress BFDL at least a year ago IMO; the ACF/SCF debacle settled it. WP and the community around it would have be…

When crooks are stealing from you and no justice can be found? He is right to be unhinged.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#286

Post by voakbasda »

garettmd wrote: post #258
dofm wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am "evaluating" him as someone who feels he has come unglued in a similarly severe but less public way and recognises a fellow traveller. I'm fully entitled to say this, am I not? It's just my opinion. I am not "medicalising" it — not least because the medical profession does not recognise burnout as mental illness (because it gets it backward and assumes it is an occupational health issue). I am saying he is, to m…

I think these responses show how much stigma is attached to mental illness, that people abhor someone placing the label on someone else. Despite the fact that, for anyone familiar with it themselves or in loved ones, it's a lot more prevalent and in many more shades and gradients than probably most people realize.

It is not just stigmatized. It is criminalized. A diagnoses can strip you of numerous rights.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#287

Post by gui_azeredo »

I read a lot of people saying so many things about Matt from the outside. As an Automattician for 9 years now, what I see from the inside is the best work environment I've ever been part of, and the best I've heard of compared to what colleagues describe at other big tech companies. Automattic is the most diverse and fair company I've seen, with an open and transparent culture.

He might not be perfect, but all of this was created under his leadership. That starts with a genuinely unique hiring process that lets the company find people who fit well, and it extends to the way he delegates to leaders below him so they can do their best, while still letting anyone, in any position, share their thoughts on anything. On top of that, there are all his contributions to open source, alongside the products and services under Automattic's umbrella.

I'm not sure what the intentions are behind the attacks on him, but I know from my experience that they aren't fair.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#288

Post by Citizen_Lame »

dofm wrote: post #246
Citizen_Lame wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Hacker News went full Reddit, we have mentally unwell (self proclaimed mind you) commentors proclaiming other people mentally ill. The irony.

I don’t use or even read Reddit. But thank you for your thoughtful input or whatever.

Get help or whatever.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#289

Post by throwaway9010 »

Matt is a very good person who has done a ton for open source, the internet, and the arts. As a founder, this type of board action would be incredibly emotionally difficult, especially given you've worked with these people for decades and built the company from nothing.

While you may disagree to his reactions to particular issues, I don't really understand rooting against him or the negativity against him personally — he is one of the last stalwarts against a corporate, big tech internet.

The situation is obviously more complex than any of us know, and I'd encourage everyone to be a bit more positive and supportive of a fellow founder and builder.

Re: Automattic's board forces CEO Matt Mullenweg into leave of absence

#290

Post by dofm »

safety1st wrote: post #250
dofm wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am "evaluating" him as someone who feels he has come unglued in a similarly severe but less public way and recognises a fellow traveller. I'm fully entitled to say this, am I not? It's just my opinion. I am not "medicalising" it — not least because the medical profession does not recognise burnout as mental illness (because it gets it backward and assumes it is an occupational health issue). I am saying he is, to m…

I am only entreating you to be accurate about the terminology used. Due to its historical use by psychologists the term mental illness is generally thought to be synonymous with mental disorder, which is the modern term that refers to a specific illness classified in the DSM-IV which psychiatrists may diagnose. There are only so many of them, and they are defined, and they are diagnosed by name by doctors. To me it i…

For goodness’ sake, I didn’t “diagnose” him or try to.

If I were to get more specific than “mentally ill” that would be a diagnosis.

But “mentally ill” is not a diagnosis and it wasn’t an attempt at one.

I mean it colloquially based on my own really similar, serious experiences with coming quite unglued due to burnout that eventually rendered me unable to work but before that made me act irrationally against my own interests in a way that has caused me negative consequences.

I consider myself to have been mentally ill. I think it looked like that to people I scared and shocked.

But this wouldn’t be a “diagnosis” either, not least because the healthcare industry doesn’t want to admit or address that it goes further than mere occupational health “thing”.

So would you please fucking stop imagining I did something more specific so you can call me out for doing it.

> There are unfortunately people out there who will read your comment and take it to mean that a doctor actually diagnosed Matt.

No there aren’t. Don’t be silly.

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