Live data from Hacker News

All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

mathstodon.xyz

191–200 of 203 posts

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the novelty and rarity. He wants an experience he can't have all the time. It's banal to you as an adult, because it's not rare or new. Adults do the same thing in more exotic and expensive contexts.

It's gambling. I think pretty much all carnival games work like that.

Fundamentally, doesn't gambling require a potential payout that is more valuable than the initial input? If you can only ever get less than you put in that's not really a gamble is it?

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#192

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

> And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble. People under-appreciate (or have forgotten) that a lot of happiness is is related to anticipating as opposed to getting . I think if more people focused on the journey or the process (or the (present) moment), versus the goal, there'd be more joy/happiness around.

Older kids tend to get fewer, more expensive gifts. I recently did the nested boxes gag, but with gift bags. What started out as a 2’x1’x6’ draw string bug turned into two gift cards. It was a lot of fun for a shaggy dog payoff that otherwise would have been an envelope tear and into the next thing.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's gambling. I think pretty much all carnival games work like that.

Fundamentally, doesn't gambling require a potential payout that is more valuable than the initial input? If you can only ever get less than you put in that's not really a gamble is it?

It's still a gamble, just a really bad one for you

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#194
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean "according to google"? Google does not track historical demographic data. Like, use actual source. Second 4% is actually a lot. In a class of 20 kids, one will have dead parent. That makes it something all kids growing during the era are aware of. To me it suggest it should be expected for some writers to write about this group.

it is not that much, it means if she had 25 (4% is 1 in 25, not 1 in 20) main characters, one of them should have dead parent if she would reflect the reality and didn't have some orphan/death fetish with significant number (way way more than 1 in 25 or even 1 in 10) of her characters being orphans/foster/neglected kids

The "if you show a minority in your book, their number must not exceed their exact demographic share" rule would make it impossible to write about any minority.

> if she would reflect the reality and didn't have some orphan/death fetish

The aggressive hostility toward writing about non-majority is super weird.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#195
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the first time my son said the 'f' word, he got the tone and the body language exactly right for the context in which he used it (a frustrated/resigned "fuck's sake", with roll-eyes and throw-head-back, look up to the sky). He might have been five years old at the time. And back then, I really didn't say it around them very much (out of an attempt to be somewhat responsible). They're absorbing everything. The…

I never quite understood the obsession with keeping some language away from children that everyone uses themselves. The words are there because they are needed. Walking the euphemism treadmill is a Sisyphus effort.

Let them build a decent vocabulary before exposing them to the words that replace all sorts of other words ;)

I want them to be clever with how they use language. Or at least have the knowledge to be clever, if they apply themselves.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a dishonest read of the book I don't actually know what to say. To me, joining Johnathan at the end is the conclusion of the entire book of love, loyalty and bravery. Nowhere does it say "meh, no biggie just kill yourself". If that's the message you took from it then I strongly encourage you to sit down one evening and read it again. The biggest "proof" of it not being treated lightly is obviously all the…

The "dishonest read" is a strange accusation. I think I was about 11 or 12 when I read the book and my reaction was - "err, so they just going to keep killing themselves willy-nilly? Well thats a bit dumb". I did like the story though and reread the book later several times, but the suicide bits felt always so weird.

Dishonest as in - it requires ignoring 99% of the book and focusing on the last couple pages, ignoring the entire struggle, bravery and sacrifice that lead to that moment.

>>err, so they just going to keep killing themselves willy-nilly

Well so your 12 year old self I guess missed the part where Johnathan was mortally wounded and about to die. The fact that Karl decides to join him in death is not a glorification of suicide, and I don't know how it could possibly be read that way. There's literally nothing willy-nilly about it - again, it doesn't appear to be some well known fact or even a fact at all that there is another "level" beyond that one - it's a guess, a hope at best. And Karl decides to jump with his dearest brother because(as made incredibly explicit multiple times throughout the entire book) - he loves him more than anything in the world and cannot imagine parting with him again. You make it sound like a video game where characters go "meh, let's try again" - it's absolutely not so. Before he died the first time, Karl wasn't sure if Johnathan was telling the truth about afterlife or if he wanted to just make him feel better in his ilness - and now that Johnathan was mortally wounded, Karl knew that only bravery and hope and love for the people you care about is worth living(and dying) for. That's what the book is about.

In my first comment I even made this explicit - I said that as an adult, this book makes me appreciate the finality of death - and you might ask, how is that so, given that in this world it looks like you can just keep dying over and over again only to go to higher planes of existence. And the answer is simple - with every death, you lose everything except for hope. Hope that you are going to wake up again in a better world and that the people you love will still be there. But you don't know. In my personal life I don't believe in it - but for children, this is the greatest gift - hope. Especially struggling ones that see no bright path anywhere - hope is all they have. And as you can tell, for majority of the book the hope was "we can win persevere against hardship and evil" and not "we can kill ourselves and hope the next world is better".

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#197

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

> And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble. People under-appreciate (or have forgotten) that a lot of happiness is is related to anticipating as opposed to getting . I think if more people focused on the journey or the process (or the (present) moment), versus the goal, there'd be more joy/happiness around.

I have been thinking about just this the past two weeks. I have been trying to recall the excitement, the joy in the most mundane things, and indeed I think it has a lot to do with anticipation. FWIW LSD allowed me to experience this joy, and the curiosity kids have, or I had. :)

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#198
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite understood the obsession with keeping some language away from children that everyone uses themselves. The words are there because they are needed. Walking the euphemism treadmill is a Sisyphus effort.

Let them build a decent vocabulary before exposing them to the words that replace all sorts of other words ;) I want them to be clever with how they use language. Or at least have the knowledge to be clever, if they apply themselves.

I heard of a study [1] claiming that people that swear more have a larger vocabulary in general, so your efforts might be counter-intuitive to your goal.

Don't see how deprivation of some words leads to the knowledge of other words, either. Maybe if you interject and correct swear word usage by providing other words that would be a better fit.

> Taboo word fluency is correlated with general fluency.

> Taboo words comprise pejoratives and slurs.

> Taboo fluency is correlated with neuroticism and openness.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03880...

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#199
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get piñatas, but there is an extreme version of this that I find just too much. Not sure in other places, but in Spain there is a kind of fair stall where children use a plastic fishing rod with a magnet or hook to catch some plastic ducks with the corresponding magnet or hook. The ducks have some points and give you rewards, but the payoff is terrible - maybe you spend €10 and you get a gift that you could buy for…

Have you tried setting up a tub of water at home and gluing some magnets to some rubber ducks? When my son was 7 I would pay him his weekly allowance and he would get distracted and leave it on some random table and walk away. It's likely the act of fishing for ducks is more appealing in this instance than any potential ROI calculation.

[deleted]

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#200
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids do think about death. Hiding or avoiding the discussion does nothing. My kids absolutely adored Brothers Lionheart.

Have you read the book or your kids just read it without you knowing what is it about? This book says basically - no biggie, there is no death, you commit suicide to move to another level to be with your brother, you can't lose him, you have infinite lives in this videogame called Life. And what if I F up the next level? no biggie, you just commit suicide again to be with him, there is no such thing as permanent deat…

I think you miss the point of this book. Karl had tuberculosis, Jonathan died saving him from a fire despite knowing Karl would soon die (which he did). No suicide there, only tragedy. Then they had an "afterlife" which is full of the adventure they wished they had when they were alive - which also means that there's some serious darkness there to fight, so not heaven by any means. In the end, Karl gets to do for Jonathan essentially what he did for him, and they're ready to move on. They didn't commit suicide, they were already dead. I don't think a single Swedish kid killed themselves over misunderstanding this book, they didn't miss the part that the brothers really treasured life and it was a tragedy that they died in the first chapter.
Post reply on HN