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How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

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Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that the unused machine has the wrong date? Perhaps that confused the operative system file dates and Dropbox. (I have an old machine that hardly use now that has problems with the motherboard battery and sometime it travels in time to a funny date like 2000 and all the security certificates are marked as wrong.)

You'd think Dropbox on each computer would check the last time it had synced, using the time reported from a Dropbox server. I pray they wouldn't ever rely on users' own system clocks.

Indeed. I once spent several hours debugging a desktop client application that relied on a correct system time.

Finally, we noticed the user's system time was set to several weeks in the future. "Oh yeah, that?" He showed us how he uses the system calendar to check dates in the future. When he was done, he'd click the "Ok" button, thereby setting the current date in Windows to some future day.

Lesson learned.

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can't comment on this specific case, I do want to say there is a tremendous amount of rigor (and layers of protection) to ensure the end clients are resilient to misbehaving computers and do the right thing. For example, you shouldn't have to worry about the clock being accurate as it has no bearing on the final sync state. Just to dive in a bit for the HN crowd: We base the changes that should be applied to…

Client rigor doesn't help with server failure this severe. The guy lost everything because a temporary team membership was revoked. And now you're coming back to talk about your rigor, and how you catch things that fall through the cracks. This really comes off, to me at least, like LinkedIn did when after their breach and it was revealed they weren't even salting passwords, they tried to brag about their security, a…

Completely disagree. I found no problems with the tone here. Instead, you have an insider who shares a few implementation details to give us an idea about the depth at which they go to prevent data loss failures. I saw nothing in his post as "bragging".

The guy lost everything because a temporary team membership was revoked.

What would you like him to do, apologize profusely and robotically without knowing the details of this incident? Dropbox is a decent-sized organization and I am pretty sure they have guys already responsible for addressing specific issues like this. To expect every employee to know details of every issue seems unreasonable.

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#223

Hey guys - Dropbox product manager here, tl;dr: The scenario described by the OP is now less likely to occur. Since October, individual Dropbox users are encouraged to create separate accounts when invited to a Team and warned that Teams admins will have control over the account. We want individual and Team Dropbox users to have the best possible experience. Some users want to migrate their personal accounts into a T…

> Disabled accounts are not immediately deleted: We can work with Teams admins and users to sort out account issues and recover users’ files. Wait a sec, does this mean when I delete my files they are ... not being deleted? > We’ve contacted the OP to help resolve his case and are sorry for any pain this caused! Great, good for him. So basically next time when I or others have problems with Dropbox, post a rant about…

Ability to recover deleted files for up to 30 days is a prominently advertised feature of Dropbox. It would be unthinkable for them not to allow that, given how easily files can be lost by users who aren't familiar with how syncing works.

Look at all of the people who consider Dropbox a "backup" service, and imagine being the guy on the phone who has to explain that yes, actually, deleting a file on one system is supposed to delete it from all other clients.

I will say that this is a really interesting story, in that it illustrates how Dropbox, like all of the similar services on the market, is handy for many use cases but ideal for almost none. A service that's basically a "scriptable" Dropbox would be pretty compelling.

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#224

Hey guys - Dropbox product manager here, tl;dr: The scenario described by the OP is now less likely to occur. Since October, individual Dropbox users are encouraged to create separate accounts when invited to a Team and warned that Teams admins will have control over the account. We want individual and Team Dropbox users to have the best possible experience. Some users want to migrate their personal accounts into a T…

> * Better support for multiple accounts: Users can quickly switch between using personal and Teams accounts on the web today and we intend to make this better across our platforms.

On Linux, I've gone out of my way to install the (pseudo-unsupported?) daemon headless under multiple users to get concurrent access to work and person accounts; would like to see this improve (while dealing with the "I have ten free accounts" and other pathological cases).

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#225
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At best this is an unfortunate "pilot error" and at worst this is a sign of incompetence. I'm not sure knowledge of an obscure Windows-specific drag and drop quirk should be a requirement for using Dropbox safely. > you do have separate system and data drives on your machines, right? I'm not sure use of a partition table editor should be a requirement for using Dropbox safely. Most people use the operating system t…

OK, let's take a look at your points: > I'm not sure knowledge of an obscure Windows-specific drag and drop quirk should be a requirement for using Dropbox safely. Not a "obscure Windows-specific drag and drop quirk". This is how the OS works. If you are a developer you need to know your OS. > I'm not sure use of a partition table editor should be a requirement for using Dropbox safely. It isn't, but if you are smart…

Out of curiosity, when storing new files how do you decide between Data and Development drives or is Data fully unrelated to Development context?

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#226
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience Dropbox won't sync if the local system time is too far off. Makes no sense IMO, but that seems to be how it works.

that's just SSL cert validation :-)

Seems questionable to use the local time for that. System time isn't exactly a trusted quantity, is it?

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm bummed out that so many people down-voted you when you put so much effort into your post. I think you inadvertently brought out the shitty, immature side of the HN crowd. :)

He put in a huge amount of effort to derail the discussion. Pretend that where it says "wasn't able to recover everything" the post said "wasn't able to recover everything from Dropbox, and had to resort to getting external backups mailed to him". Same terrible problem on Dropbox's end, suddenly no need to waste pages arguing about 'responsibility'. He brought out the part of the HN crowd that wants things to be on-t…

> He brought out the part of the HN crowd that wants things to be on-topic and/or useful instead of user-blaming

Right. You didn't obviously read my comments, did you? Maybe you just skimmed them and chose to jump on the band-wagon?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4963826

I'll quote the most relevant and definitely constructive/useful parts here you don't have to bother with the links if you don't want to. If you do, please slow down and read it all. Then think about the idea of loosing, I don't know, a year's worth of work and blaming someone else for it.

Here it is (reformatted because HN does not have a much-needed block-quote markup):

    My approach for Dropbox on both Windows and OSX is to have the 
    Dropbox folder on a drive that will never see development work, 
    even if that means creating a separate partition for it. 
    
    In most cases the system drive works fine (you do have separate 
    system and data drives on your machines, right?).
    
    This forces a COPY operation rather than a file MOVE if you 
    drag-and-drop files into any Dropbox folder. Which means that 
    everything in the Dropbox folder could be trashed tomorrow and 
    nothing whatsoever would be lost.
Do this TODAY and unless you have massive local loss of data you don't have to worry about Dropbox loosing any of your data at all. Not one bit. If that isn't constructive I don't know what it.

Then I also said:

    FEATURE REQUEST: It would be very nice if Dropbox client software 
    could have an option to auto-magically COPY files in and out of 
    Dropbox rather than allowing any files to be moved. 
    
    The above-mentioned hack works fine but it'd be nice to not have to 
    use it. Also, I'd venture to guess that most Dropbox users don't do 
    this, which opens them to unintended loss.
In other words, if Dropbox could implement the suggested approach EVERYONE, engineer or not, would be spared of total data loss due to something going on at Dropbox. Local data loss, of course, is still your responsibility.

And then, trying to understand further, I asked this:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4963768

So, I'll say that overall I've been pretty constructive. If anyone adopts my approach of storing their Dropbox folder in an unused drive they are almost guaranteed that Dropbox can't loose their data. That is worth money.

Please point me to a link or blog post with your immediate solutions to this problem. I'd love to compare notes. Maybe there's a better approach. Always interested in learning. I am sure there are lots of people who, tonight, might be interested in adopting your approach to ensuring that accidental data loss by a remote service of any kind does not mean total data loss locally.

Thanks.

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#228
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's just SSL cert validation :-)

Seems questionable to use the local time for that. System time isn't exactly a trusted quantity, is it?

hmmm, I think it's fairly common practice amongst similar software (i.e. firefox, chrome, etc.) to use system time as a signal that you may be connecting to a server that has an outdated SSL certificate. while it's not perfect, it's a good first order security precaution to take (in addition to verifying the CA) to ensure you are talking to who you think you are.

Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#229
post #107

Another Dropbox horror story: My colleague lost most of his Dropbox folder last week, and wasn't able to recover everything. What happened: he had Dropbox synced to 2 computers, but one of them hadn't been used in a while. He turned on the old computer, and apparently, for some reason, Dropbox decided that the fact that many files weren't there was because they were deleted. Of course, the files weren't there because…

Down-voted because I think that it is just dumb to have a Dropbox account and forgo local backup of the files on the service. Dropbox is not an extension of your mission-critical local storage and backup. My approach for Dropbox on both Windows and OSX is to have the Dropbox folder on a drive that will never see development work, even if that means creating a separate partition for it. In most cases the system drive…

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Re: How to terminate your worst enemy's Dropbox account for only $795

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He put in a huge amount of effort to derail the discussion. Pretend that where it says "wasn't able to recover everything" the post said "wasn't able to recover everything from Dropbox, and had to resort to getting external backups mailed to him". Same terrible problem on Dropbox's end, suddenly no need to waste pages arguing about 'responsibility'. He brought out the part of the HN crowd that wants things to be on-t…

> He brought out the part of the HN crowd that wants things to be on-topic and/or useful instead of user-blaming Right. You didn't obviously read my comments, did you? Maybe you just skimmed them and chose to jump on the band-wagon? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4963826 I'll quote the most relevant and definitely constructive/useful parts here you don't have to bother with the links if you don't want to. If you…

I read your posts. The constructive parts are minor compared to the derail, and you easily could have avoided the enormous argument. Also, do you really see no downside to the fact that you have basically reimplemented manual sync on top of dropbox? It throws out most of Dropbox's safety features just because they aren't perfect, and throws out half the ease of use.
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