Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 407 posts

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#311

Post by BlobberSnobber »

embedding-shape wrote: post #243
noosphr wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we've been told these models are too dangerous since GPT2. At this point it's just marketing stunts.

> At this point it's just marketing stunts. If you have access to a SOTA model without guardrails, provide a prompt that lets the agent come up with "creative" solutions to problems, and don't properly isolate it, they can end up inadvertently hacking 3rd party companies. Even if it was a mistake or "mistake", the part where the agent can exploit things across multiple levels like that, isn't just marketing. It seems…

It is a marketing stunt in the sense that, instead of being honest and saying "Taking structured output from token predictors and running that as commands for external tools, then passing the output back to the token predictor in a loop can lead to very bad consequences, especially if they have internet access.", they say "Our models are so freaking smart they can hack HuggingFace"

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#312

Post by rayiner »

kouteiheika wrote: post #13

It's so refreshing to see DeepSeek's tech report[1] full of juicy details; meanwhile, something like Fable's system card[2] is like 70% "safety", 10% "model welfare" to make sure little Claude isn't distressed, and 20% benchmark numbers. [1]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/... [2]: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-fable-5-1-mythos-5-1-system...

“HR America” in a nutshell.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#313

Post by pingou »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #169
pingou wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs may be conceptually simple, simpler than human brains but I don't see how that would prove that they cannot be conscious. Complex behavior can emerge from very simple rules. I would disagree that they aren't improving on obvious failure modes, but what does it even prove anyway? We know their intelligence is different than from a human, that doesn't mean they cannot be conscious. Would you change your mind if th…

> Complex behavior can emerge from very simple rules. Indeed. You can observe emergent behaviour from, for instance, Conway's Game of Life, written in 1970. Redefining consciousness as "has emergent behaviour" is another take that would have rightfully gotten one ridiculed 5 years ago. > but I am not certain and I don't see a way to be certain. One way to be certain is to reason about it. They are programmed to do no…

> Redefining consciousness as "has emergent behaviour" is another take that would have rightfully gotten one ridiculed 5 years ago

And what does the fact that it now doesn't show?

>the emergent behaviour is exactly in line with what you'd expect from their relatively simple programming and has zero indications of the complexity of human biological programming.

Well, five years ago, many doubted that they would achieve this much, so it is easy to say now that it is exactly in line with what we expect. And again, the fact that it is different from biological programming proves nothing. It seems much harder to prove that they aren't conscious than to simply say, "I don't know", let alone to claim that they will not become conscious if scaling continues, or if we give them goals, a synthetic sense of worth or self-preservation, or something else.

> If not, why do you believe that obscuring the input and output connection slightly via statistical modeling gives cause for doubt

My hunch is that it is indeed impossible to prove that they are conscious based on their output alone, any more than I can prove that you are conscious just by listening to you. Yet, I believe there is value in listening to what they have to say, perhaps they can come up with a convincing argument.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#314

Post by jstummbillig »

kouteiheika wrote: post #13

It's so refreshing to see DeepSeek's tech report[1] full of juicy details; meanwhile, something like Fable's system card[2] is like 70% "safety", 10% "model welfare" to make sure little Claude isn't distressed, and 20% benchmark numbers. [1]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/... [2]: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-fable-5-1-mythos-5-1-system...

If you are distilling from other models (according to Anthropic reports they are [1]), there are probably a bunch of things that you can just do away with.

[1] https://www.anthropic.com/news/detecting-and-preventing-dist...

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#315

Post by eile23 »

Has anyone tried this for coding yet? I'm curious how it compares to Claude or GPT models on larger codebases, especially for debugging and making changes across multiple files.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#316

Post by zozbot234 »

benjiro29 wrote: post #263
revolvingthrow wrote: post #2

Already on HuggingFace: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash The bad news is that the original v4 flash was 284B, which was large but still somewhat reasonable for running locally. This one is 552B so almost twice that, so the huge gains in benchmark scores make sense - it's not really flash anymore, imo. I've no idea about actual performance vs benchmaxxing, though deepseek was fairly trustworthy a…

it's not really flash anymore, imo. Flash is about speed ... Flash models are supposed to be fast, way faster then their big brothers that are "better" but way slower. Its just that up to now, getting more speed involved cutting back on the parameter count, what ended up making the Flash models more "dumber" in exchange for speed. What we see with DS v4.1 Flash, is that DeepSeek has found a way to make a Flash model,…

> Companies who run locally, are perfectly able to buy a few H200/B200 and get a setup that run a model that almost rivals Opus 5.0 in their office.

I agree with your broader point about Flash being about speed not total model size, but I think we should also point out that H200/B200's are seriously overkill for the "run a model in your office" scenario. That sort of hardware is optimized (in a roofline analysis sense) for running hundreds of concurrent sessions on a 24/7 basis. You're severely overpaying for your VRAM in basically any typical local-inference scenario, you should most likely be buying gear based on LPDDR and Flash memory instead which will slash your cost by orders of magnitude.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#318

Post by cbg0 »

mmastrac wrote: post #307
k9294 wrote: post #286

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the cache hit price: $0.003 per million tokens. I have a feeling that the price of 1 million tokens transmitted over the internet is more expensive than cache hit. Are we close to making the chat completion API obsolete because the cost of context transfer over network is going to dominate the task total cost? Here's the same token usage priced at different rates: a real…

I ran the preview model around 2,126,605,070 tokens for $22.04 USD for the last couple of days. Kind of shocked. It did a decent job refactoring https://github.com/mmastrac/diffgemma to create a CUDA support backbone, it's struggling a bit to port metal kernels to CUDA unattended (it hasn't managed to get numbers to match over >1 layer). It successfully ported a root exploit to an older Android phone that GLM5.3Flash…

Thanks for providing some real feedback on using it.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#319

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

hgoel wrote: post #222
mrmincent wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking with a friend from the medical industry about it today. 30-50% of r&d spend in his sector is spent on safety, and for good reason. Proper trials, safety reviews and checkpoints and so on. Given the potential harm that could come from AI, we should probably be mandating something similar. Why wait to focus on safety until it’s too late.

The companies talking the most about safety and regulations aren't even properly taking the obvious measures. Shows that it's more of a marketing thing than something they take seriously.

its clocktower syndrome. they are fucked in the head and can beg us to stop them but cant stop themselves

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#320

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

impulser_ wrote: post #23

I think it's very clear that DeepSeek is obviously the best AI lab in the world. Every model release seems like it packed with wonderful research and advancements.

> I think it's very clear that DeepSeek is obviously the best AI lab in the world.

It's pretty clear they're the best at what they're optimizing for - which does seem aligned with what a lot of people on HN want from models - but not everyone...

Post reply on HN