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I think I hate the internet

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Re: I think I hate the internet

#51

Post by kubb »

croes wrote: post #30
roenxi wrote: post #6

> The internet was about connection, but the way I see it, it’s become a great way for bad actors to... There seems to be a profound confusion somewhere in here that people come with an evil bit and we're going to toggle technology so that those people can't use it and everyone else can. Y'know, racists use cars to drive to their racist conventions or whatever. On publicly funded roads. Possibly with time freed up by…

But social media is like a car that drives faster if you’re racist. Their algorithms promote the wrong posts for the wrong reasons.

Red pill content also gives you a nice speed boost. And xenophobia is very good for engagement.

Re: I think I hate the internet

#54

Post by t43562 »

There was a time (sigh) when everything that's happening now was science fiction. I dreamed of having a computer that could even store a video let alone stream one off the internet.

It must be a bit like living through the invention of the aeroplane - from crazy glider enthusiasts running down the sides of hills to London-Sydney in only 19 hours with a couple of hundred other people.

Reading old versions of Byte Magazine reminds me of the tremendous excitement I felt about the amazing things that were happening and going to happen. It's difficult now to feel like that as almost every one of those things has come true and at the same time it all turned to **t.

https://archive.org/details/BYTE-MAGAZINE-COMPLETE/198811_By...

There were bad times when IBM dominated and then bad times when Microsoft seemed to be in a position to crush every idea and bend everything to itself.

One of the better times was when Google and others essentially sidestepped Microsoft making it irrelevant. That was a time of some hope.

We're back in an era of dominant players with impossible advantages who are extending that dominance and strongly impacting the world outside computing. Old dragons were defeated and bigger ones have risen to replace them.

What do we really have to look forward to? A new technology that cannot really be exploited by undergraduates in their garage to defeat monsters because they're paying them for it? Trying to do each other out of a job by more frenzied use of AI? Huge corporations locking themselves into positions of such power that politicians don't have the security to challenge them? Space travel, communications etc being gated by trillionaires? The Microsoft strategy but progressively levered till it is applied to everything?

But here we are on a YC related website. We've created this world.

Re: I think I hate the internet

#55

Post by jasode »

watwut wrote: post #21
roenxi wrote: post #6

> The internet was about connection, but the way I see it, it’s become a great way for bad actors to... There seems to be a profound confusion somewhere in here that people come with an evil bit and we're going to toggle technology so that those people can't use it and everyone else can. Y'know, racists use cars to drive to their racist conventions or whatever. On publicly funded roads. Possibly with time freed up by…

Roads are neutral, social networks are not. Twitter is run by white supremacist openly trying to stroke racial violence. Facebook moderation favored pro-genocide side before the genocide. And it continues to favor outrage stroking groups.

>Roads are neutral, social networks are not.

The gp's analogy maps better this way:

  roads = ip packet network routing, DNS, telecommunications cabling
  racist conventions/meetups = social media platforms like Facebook
Therefore, "I hate the internet" is analogous to "I hate the roads" because their perspective is dominated by seeing all the racists meetups that use the roads.

(Yes, people do "hate traffic" but that not's the same as "hating roads". Anyone who has travelled on unpaved dirt roads or gravel trails that make their teeth rattle will appreciate having paved roads. And that appreciation doesn't change even if a lot of KKK racist members also use roads.)

Re: I think I hate the internet

#56

Post by tannhaeuser »

Yes it's bad and it'll only get worse but how about thinking positive and towards ways out of the crisis? If your problem is with social media specifically, you could join the Fediverse (Mastodon, Piefed/Lemmy and co.) which while not perfect by any means is a bit more resilient and can be used to continue participating in niche interests while avoiding tribalism, doom, and propaganda.

Re: I think I hate the internet

#57

Post by hypfer »

raincole wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars Good example: cars come with a tracking identifier (license plate), tied to a responsible individual, who is subject to a test, and whose permission to use it can be revoked if they abuse it badly enough.

Yes, that's why we should deanonymizing the internet. Everyone should need a government-issued license to access websites. That's exactly what the modern society needs. (in case it's not super obvious, /s)

I hate to say it, but I do not see how else a nation state could act.

The goal of a state is stability. The free, open, anonymous global internet otoh is a force of change.

The west really liked that, back when it was useful to its geopolitical goals, but now, not only does it have outlived its usefulness, but also, it's suddenly being pointed at the west itself.

At least I do not see how it could be any other way. You cannot simultaneously have high-trust and low-filtering in a space.

I think a lot of confusion stems from the fact that this was actually always kinda the case. It was just not enforced by law, but by the fact that computers were weird, expensive and complex.

As the technology matured, these core assumptions started holding true less, until, eventually, we've ended up where we are now.

___

This doesn't necessarily mean that we will have no more anonymous networks though. But they will be less global and less accessible.

Thanks to open weights LLMs, we will have more capabilities within them than we did in the 90s and earlier, but, we will lack the leverage of tidal proportions that social media held.

This, to me, sounds like the compromise to be found with the powers that keep the states we live in running.

Re: I think I hate the internet

#58

Post by fyredge »

raincole wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars Good example: cars come with a tracking identifier (license plate), tied to a responsible individual, who is subject to a test, and whose permission to use it can be revoked if they abuse it badly enough.

Yes, that's why we should deanonymizing the internet. Everyone should need a government-issued license to access websites. That's exactly what the modern society needs. (in case it's not super obvious, /s)

But why not? I want to make the distinction on public and private speech. In the physical world, no one should ever have their private speech scrutinized, that's why there are laws banning covert recording. But in public, speech is very much moderated. We don't allow hate speech and we don't allow harassment of others.

Social media is a public platform. We can't enforce moderation if we can't identify the abuser, they can always just make a new account. So deanonymize social media access, but for private communication? Let's leave that free from prying eyes.

To bring it back to cars, roads are public infrastructure, that's why you need a license. No one cares if you drive licenseless on your private track.

Re: I think I hate the internet

#59

Post by alexgieg »

alex1138 wrote: post #46
alexgieg wrote: post #45

Alas, in my country WhatsApp is obligatory. Everyone uses it, businesses and banks included, and no one, at all, uses SMS. Most don't even know what SMS is for, all they know is they get random spam by their ISP, and sometimes 2FA bubbles, on an app called "Messages", but that's it. Now, technically it's possible to go without it, but life becomes so much harder it just isn't worth the hassle.

You know why? Because Acton and Koum arranged the carrier deals prior to the acquisition. That's what Zuckerberg bought, to enlargen his war chest. It's not his product, it's something he effectively stole

True, but here things went a little differently. Carriers here charged per SMS sent, and had plans with things like "includes 100 messages per month for free!!!" and extra SMS packages sold at a discount compared to the standard price, even years after they had began providing Internet (2G at the time).

People sought cheaper alternatives, and for a while several messaging apps were used, but WhatsApp was so convenient compared to everyone else (using the phone number as username, no password required, was a genius move), that it was already becoming the standard before Facebook came and acquired it.

Carriers noticed their error eventually, and stopped charging for SMS, but by then it was too late. They even tried using the tribunals to block WhatsApp, without success, and technical measures to degrade WhatsApp's protocol and block audio and video calls on it, which also failed legally. So they eventually relented, and now offer packages like "n GB/month plus free WhatsApp!!!" (and in small letters: "audio and video calls not included").

Re: I think I hate the internet

#60

Post by newsclues »

raincole wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cars Good example: cars come with a tracking identifier (license plate), tied to a responsible individual, who is subject to a test, and whose permission to use it can be revoked if they abuse it badly enough.

Yes, that's why we should deanonymizing the internet. Everyone should need a government-issued license to access websites. That's exactly what the modern society needs. (in case it's not super obvious, /s)

I definitely participate in a deanonymized internet social media platforms, especially for local issues, employment or niche hobbies. I also want anonymous internet, but having the choice between the two, for certain things may be great.
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