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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#631

Post by Simon_O_Rourke »

jonas21 wrote: post #517
giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

> Waymo says it has 170 million miles and I found 2 fatal accidents it was involved in (fault doesn't matter as fault is not included in the other stat either) I suppose you can claim fault doesn't matter. But if you read the narratives of both fatal incidents, they are so clearly not the Waymo's fault that I don't see how you can hold it against them. In the first [1], the Waymo was stopped at a red light when the c…

> The motorcyclist fell to the ground to the left side of the Waymo, then another car tried to pass the Waymo and struck the motorcyclist, killing them. That other driver fled the scene.

I wonder if they ever caught that guy?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#632

Post by dgellow »

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

But there is lots of money to be made by requiring FSD. No money to be made by banning alcohol. We know what the current administration cares about

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#633

Post by stevage »

pfdietz wrote: post #539
estebank wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier today saw a guy on a pick up truck griefing an empty Waymo by brake checking and boxing it, all over the road for about 10 minutes and over 5 blocks (no idea how much earlier it started), causing every other driver to freak out or be confused about what was going on. All the while all I could think was "you're spending your time making it more likely for a collision to happen, all to 'anger' a toaster with 36…

I hope the cops showed up at his house and confiscated his vehicle. One advantage of existence of self-driving cars is the state can permanently revoke someone's ability to own or operate manually driven motor vehicles, without the argument this is ruining their lives.

But taxis already existed?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#634

Post by wahern »

ArnoVW wrote: post #612
wahern wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manufacturer would still be liable, same as if the brakes malfunctioned.

Is that not precisely the point of the current discussion? Currently, the manufacturer is not liable. The liability can not be delegated by the driver.

The manufacturers of a self-driving car can be held and are held liable today, same as if the brakes were defective (strict product liability) or improperly marketed (negligence). That doesn't mean the driver might not also be liable. It all depends on why an accident occurred and a host of other factors. There's really nothing special about self-driving cars in this respect, except that litigation can be much more factually complicated. For failing breaks, it's relatively clear given X speed and Y distance, and assuming they were engaged, whether they worked. Then you work backwards from there. Negligent driving? Poor maintenance (driver or mechanic)? Defective design? But in driver assistance and automation systems there are many more questions about what was actually expected to happen, or what was reasonable to expect to happen.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#635

Post by tmerc »

wpm wrote: post #490
SEJeff wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is ~263x larger than the Netherlands landmass wise. It would require a loooot more trains than we have or you have.

Yeah thats a useful factor for all those "visiting mom in Portland" trips from Washington DC that a train is obviously meant to replace, not any of those "100 mi or less visits to mom" that de facto MUST be taken in a car regardless of the population density of the surrounding 100mi radius. Also we should ignore the fact that the US already had a national rail network and STILL DOES for freight and had frequent regio…

Where I live now to where my mom lives would take 24 to 30 hours by train and cost 400 to 500 usd. At 30mpg and $5/gal, the cost of driving is $200 and takes 12h. So I can take a train for double the time and cost or I can drive. Now consider round trip and passenger. It's 40 miles either side to get to a train. Neither side has a walkable city so being without a car sucks. Summer in one is hot as hell, winter in the other is frozen hell. Tell me again how trains are a viable option?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#637

Post by fhub »

Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #631
jonas21 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo says it has 170 million miles and I found 2 fatal accidents it was involved in (fault doesn't matter as fault is not included in the other stat either) I suppose you can claim fault doesn't matter. But if you read the narratives of both fatal incidents, they are so clearly not the Waymo's fault that I don't see how you can hold it against them. In the first [1], the Waymo was stopped at a red light when the c…

> The motorcyclist fell to the ground to the left side of the Waymo, then another car tried to pass the Waymo and struck the motorcyclist, killing them. That other driver fled the scene. I wonder if they ever caught that guy?

She turned herself in (After the police went to her home and she wasn't there)

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#638

Post by 72deluxe »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #512
estebank wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier today saw a guy on a pick up truck griefing an empty Waymo by brake checking and boxing it, all over the road for about 10 minutes and over 5 blocks (no idea how much earlier it started), causing every other driver to freak out or be confused about what was going on. All the while all I could think was "you're spending your time making it more likely for a collision to happen, all to 'anger' a toaster with 36…

Good thing we get wiser with age. Oh, wait no we don't. We insist on driving while beeing unable to look over the shoulder or having dementia. Knew somebody whose by no deceased dementia afflicted father used google to navigate him home when he forgot where he was. Thats the accidents with a "confused" driver, not from the accident.

Which country is this? In the UK they take your licence off you straight away as soon as there is a dementia diagnosis, I believe.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#639

Post by phoghed »

speedstyle wrote: post #404
phoghed wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. You already have it, people want this. > Waymo says it has 170 million miles and I found 2 fatal accidents it was involved in (fault doesn't matter as fault is not included in the other stat either). Looks like the average is about 1.3 fatalities per 100 million miles, and about 1 per 100 million miles for CDLs. This doesn't seem that impressive.…

> people want this. Could you justify this? e.g. https://doi.org/10.1080/17450101.2024.2325386 (N=1890): "What first comes to mind when you hear the term self-driving vehicles?" (coded free-text) 17% positive, 34% neutral, 49% negative "How would you feel about riding in a self-driving vehicle instead of the existing ways you travel?" 28% comfortable, 15% neutral, 53% uncomfortable "How would you feel about using the…

Looking at the companion reports it seems to me like boomers are bringing the numbers down. Once they die off we’re good to go.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#640

Post by fragmede »

lambdaone wrote: post #607
fragmede wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here we get into details. The problem with buses is their rubber tires. The awesome thing about buses is also their rubber tires. Need to move the bus line around? No need to run new tracks, just have the driver drive a different route. But all the negativities to buses aren't small details. Because you can just up and move the bus route, it means that the cafe owner right by the stop is at the mercy of the city…

With respect to tire pollution, buses are far less bad than cars. Providing a bus is not nearly empty, while the per-vehicle pollution is worse than a car, it's per-passenger pollution is much less.

Yes but they're worse than trams and trains.
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