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All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

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Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#51

Post by ErroneousBosh »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #7
burticlies wrote: post #3

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

The British rock-band Traffic said it in their "Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys" : "... we were children once, playing with toys". I wonder if it's true that people don't remember. People maybe remember but don't want to talk about it. It is such a cognitive dissonance.

Runrig's song "Fichead Bliadhna", too, but that's more kind of a protest song:

Ruith sa mhonadh, ruith nam beann

’S mar sin dhan sgoil aig deireadh samhraidh

Nar clann aig còig bliadhna dh’aois

’S gun facal Beurla nar ceann

translated:

Freedom of the moor, freedom of the hills (Ruith is literally "running" though)

And off to school at summer's end

As children of five years old

And not a word of English in our heads

Particularly resonant with me as my 6-year-old cycles off to school for the second month of Primary 2. Quite a wrench to have to deal with sitting still and listening to the teacher when it's 20° outside and sunny and there are bikes and toy cars and mud and sticks.

At least some twenty years later by the late 70s when I was that age they actually were teaching Gaelic in schools again instead of literally beating it out of people, and now my son is in a Gaelic-medium class in school making it one of the three languages he speaks.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#52

Post by thin_carapace »

cbolton wrote: post #37
burticlies wrote: post #3

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

It never occurred to me to consider efficiency in piñata, but I dislike them because it's making a game out of violence.

is play not an indirect method of practicing the physiological mechanisms designed for violence ? baby lions are both happy to play with other animals, and to eat them ... which inevitably progresses to predation only ... and humans are the apex predator ...

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#53

Post by WalterBright »

sevenzero wrote: post #45
Computer0 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child I did not see it as violent

Children have no concept of violence or empathy or right or wrong. Children often are extremely violent to other kids and sometimes even adults. They kick they scream they punch and they destroy objects. It's on the parents to teach them these concepts and its fun to have settings in which that behavior is allowed.

> Children have no concept of violence or empathy or right or wrong

This is not correct. I remember having a sense of shame when I was 4 when I tried to hurt another kid. Kids will also hide the things they do wrong, because they know it is wrong.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#54

Post by ErroneousBosh »

317070 wrote: post #13
HenrikPontoppid wrote: post #8

I remember reading once about how Astrid Lindgren's children's books were supreme exactly because she - contrary to many others - remembers what it is like to be a child. Not just what you did or thought when you were a child - how it felt. The endless curiosity and appreciation for what in an adult's eyes is trivial is really a special thing I hope most people carry throughout their lives. On the other hand, childre…

Overestimate their understanding, underestimate their vocabulary.

"But it's okay if a battery goes on fire daddy, I'll put carbon dioxide on it!" - EBv2.0, aged 3 and a half

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#55

Post by ubercore »

sevenzero wrote: post #45
Computer0 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child I did not see it as violent

Children have no concept of violence or empathy or right or wrong. Children often are extremely violent to other kids and sometimes even adults. They kick they scream they punch and they destroy objects. It's on the parents to teach them these concepts and its fun to have settings in which that behavior is allowed.

I am an incredibly non-violent person, but have a toddler has really made me work hard to understand the difference in what associations we attach to "violence" as adults.

I try to help him understand this slowly, but a lot of "play" can look violent to my eyes, and I struggle to remember that. A 3 year old just doesn't see it that way yet, and that's fine. But it's hard to remember that in the moment.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#56

Post by gambiting »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #49
locknitpicker wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a child I did not see it as violent That's the problem. Hitting a tied up animal until it breaks is clearly a violent affair, similar how hanging puppets in nooses or putting a doll in a guillotine. I'm sure that there are kids growing up in places where bullfights are common thinking that torturing and killing a bull in a party-like atmosphere is fine.

Do you see Pokemon as encouraging a culture of accepting dogfighting/cockfighting rings?

I mean yeah, absolutely. But a child growing up in a western society is unlikely to encounter either of those. But generally I do see Pokemon as violent and I wouldn't let my 5 year old watch it quite yet. When he's a bit older I hope he enjoys playing through the original games and the OG tv show with me, but I see parents playing the TV show for their 4-5 year olds and I think that's just too young. Same with Spidey and friends and few other shows made "for children" which absolutely promote violence despite the colourful aesthetic.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#57

Post by rolfus »

cbolton wrote: post #37
burticlies wrote: post #3

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

It never occurred to me to consider efficiency in piñata, but I dislike them because it's making a game out of violence.

This is only tangentially directed at your reply, but this is the kind of statement that I'll sometimes hear other parents say, and it makes me think that they've completely forgotten what childhood was actually like. Like, the idea that normal, fun activities and sports are bad because they bear some abstract resemblance to adult violence feels very contrived and misses what childhood play is about.

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#58

Post by red_admiral »

cbolton wrote: post #37
burticlies wrote: post #3

I see this clearly at kids birthday parties whenever there is a piñata. Adults hate them. All they see is the goal and the incredibly inefficient path the kids are taking towards it. But the kids love it, they don’t care when they miss, they are just enjoying hitting something with a stick. And every miss heightens the excitement for the eventual lolly scramble.

It never occurred to me to consider efficiency in piñata, but I dislike them because it's making a game out of violence.

Those who don't lose the fun of hitting things graduate to hitting things with swords and end up in the SCA (not the coffee one).

I see the point about violence but I'm ok with it because it's based on fun and not anger. Olympic archery, javelin, or even fencing have an obvious past in warfare but today they've become sports.

I can only speak for some of the European versions of SCA-like clubs but there's a lot of pride-flag flying strictly-no-fascists fun activity with a dose of pretending to be children again.

(Buhurt is a bit more complicated.)

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#59

Post by BLKNSLVR »

This relates almost not at all to the actual linked words, but I feel it relates to the sentiment of the title.

As a parent of two, now pretty much independent grown, children, I came to the conclusion a while ago that my childhood was for my parents enjoyment and my children's childhoods were for my enjoyment.

I fucking loved being able to guide them on their early ride through life. I think I re-lived my childhood vicariously through them, so I assume my parents did the same, and my kids will do the same with theirs. fingers firmly crossed

It feels as if this is how it should be. When you're a child going through childhood you don't have the awareness that, well, that's what's happening, you're just doing your thing without any knowledge yet of what your thing is; very little to compare it to, not a lot of real choice.

As an adult you're aware of the a lot of the badness in the world and the place you've ended up occupying in the innumerable spectrums of all the things. As an adult trying to guide kids into the world, the mad freedom of being a child is a wonder to behold.

For those of you who haven't had kids yet, or have young ones, record their madness. My home videos of my kids being entirely unbridled children are probably my favourite possessions in the whole world. My kids even go back and watch themselves, to their own endless amusement.

I often try to retain my 'wonder', and every now and then make sure to do something a bit mad. It makes the worthwhile people smile (and my kids cringe these days, but I sense there's an appreciation underneath it).

Re: All grown-ups were once children, but only few of them remember it

#60

Post by w4der »

locknitpicker wrote: post #44
Computer0 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child I did not see it as violent

> As a child I did not see it as violent That's the problem. Hitting a tied up animal until it breaks is clearly a violent affair, similar how hanging puppets in nooses or putting a doll in a guillotine. I'm sure that there are kids growing up in places where bullfights are common thinking that torturing and killing a bull in a party-like atmosphere is fine.

As a kid I don't remember, or have pictures of, an animal-looking piñata, they were just colorful boxes full of candy and things.
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