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The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

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Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#131

Post by holgerschurig »

mdp2021 wrote: post #14
tensor wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one needs a compromise. The world (except the US) agreed to use this new map together. It's not a conflict.

Somebody who does not represent anybody "agreed" - not us.

Well, the underlying thinking "only people I directly voted for can do things" is wrong. I guess you never directly voted for your minister of economy, or? In many countries people don't directly vote for the prime minister, chancellor etc.

The key term some people never learned in school is "direct democracy" vs. "indirect democracy".

Even many clubs, e.g. in Germany the ADAC, have systems where people vote for an assembly (or, in politics: a parliament). And then the assembly vote fot ehri CO (or, in politics, for their chancellor). Now, it can happen that this chancellor together with 26 other head of states is a member of the Europen Council (EUCO, one of the 7 bodies of the EU, what btw most people all the time intermingle). And that this EUCO now votes on their president.

In your logic, this presidency of the EUCO is then null and void. Because not directly elected by citizens of the EU.

In my logic, I realize that this position is removed from the people, but it still done by a democratic process. A multi-stage process, but still democratic. And that it still has some bearing.

Asking for the whole world population having an election on e.g. the UN Secretary General --- under the implication that only this would give representation --- is bogus.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#132

Post by [deleted] »

exabrial wrote: post #106
bawolff wrote: post #83

I feel like people are making more of a fuss about this then it is. The UNGA isn't a body that controls what maps its member states use. They can make the recommendation of course, but it has yet to be seen if anyone follows it.

Yeah, that's my thoughts as well. The answer is literally in the article: > Mercator useful for sailing This is the only correct answer, and everything else is unscientific nonsense. It hasn't been replaced because... it just hasn't. Mercator + knots + nautical miles is a system that is extremely useful for navigation. Since we aren't sailing ships around a whole lot anymore, a lot of teachers forget to mention the r…

[deleted]

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#133

Post by skew-aberration »

petermcneeley wrote: post #116

Ya people have no idea how big Africa truly is Here is the UK in Africa: https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTAyODQ3Nzg.NTkyNDI2Nw*... Note of course this includes Scotland! The traditional English are basically a dot.

I don't get why people say this / focus on Africa in this conversation. I've never thought Africa was small and was taught about the Berlin Conference, etc in school.

All the large continents are near the equator and hence the relative size of Africa, Australia, North/South America, Asia is not affected much by the projection. Antarctica is big too, even though wildly exaggerated by Mercator.

If anything, it makes more sense to say people don't realize how small UK/Europe is.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#134

Post by holgerschurig »

andsoitis wrote: post #118
tensor wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Canadian. Canada represents me. They voted on this. That's how the world works. Sometimes my government is not the one I voted for and my interests are not represented, or sometimes my interests are not the majority in my country. That's life. No one is forcing you to use the new map, you can keep your old map. No one will arrest you for it. Enjoy!

By when is Canada going to be using the new map?

This question is nonsensical. Canada is not ONE identity. It's millions of people, hundred thousands of companies and organizations. Go and ask them individually.

Also, the UN voted to use this map for itself and suggested (!) that others should use it. It never said that everyone has to use that map. It actually said that this voting is "non-binding".

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#135

Post by holgerschurig »

tensor wrote: post #8
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #6

Robinson projection is a good enough, boring compromise, if the UN was interested in that.

No one needs a compromise. The world (except the US) agreed to use this new map together. It's not a conflict.

Mercator already did compromise on area and length to have "rhumb lines" (used for navigation, but also direction finding) be straight.

Other map projections (we have hundreds!) compromise on other things to improve on others. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections

So yes, we definitely NEED compromise and not some strongman that says, due to limited knowledge "it is how it is, forever".

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#137

Post by poulpy123 »

skew-aberration wrote: post #133
petermcneeley wrote: post #116

Ya people have no idea how big Africa truly is Here is the UK in Africa: https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTAyODQ3Nzg.NTkyNDI2Nw*... Note of course this includes Scotland! The traditional English are basically a dot.

I don't get why people say this / focus on Africa in this conversation. I've never thought Africa was small and was taught about the Berlin Conference, etc in school. All the large continents are near the equator and hence the relative size of Africa, Australia, North/South America, Asia is not affected much by the projection. Antarctica is big too, even though wildly exaggerated by Mercator. If anything, it makes mo…

Because they imply racism and colonialism

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#138

Post by shevy-java »

> The UN endorsed a resolution to promote maps that accurately reflect the true size of continents, dethroning the 500-year-old Mercator projection in the process.

That project was always silly really.

That the USA is turning into the number #1 rogue country is also problematic. Trump is damaging everything here.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#139

Post by riffraff »

skew-aberration wrote: post #133
petermcneeley wrote: post #116

Ya people have no idea how big Africa truly is Here is the UK in Africa: https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTAyODQ3Nzg.NTkyNDI2Nw*... Note of course this includes Scotland! The traditional English are basically a dot.

I don't get why people say this / focus on Africa in this conversation. I've never thought Africa was small and was taught about the Berlin Conference, etc in school. All the large continents are near the equator and hence the relative size of Africa, Australia, North/South America, Asia is not affected much by the projection. Antarctica is big too, even though wildly exaggerated by Mercator. If anything, it makes mo…

North America is very affected, Mercator makes it look as big or bigger than Africa when it's actually quite smaller.
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