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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#491

Post by TulliusCicero »

socalgal2 wrote: post #357
throw0101a wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fewer than drivers, given that drivers tend to ignore the rules of the road more per a Danish government study: * https://politiken.dk/danmark/art7185605/Rygterne-om-cykliste... * Via: https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/... And perhaps more drivers should take up some cycling as it would make them better drivers (per a UK insurance company) * https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/ca…

Ridiculous and trivially provably false. (maybe Danish are different) Go to any intersection in SF or LA. Set up a camera. Count the number of cars and cyclists that break a traffic law. Cars will be 5-10% breaking the laws. Cyclists will be 95-97% breaking the laws.

Yeah, it's not like drivers text while driving, go over the speed limit, fail to signal, fail to fully stop at stop signs, run red lights, tailgate, or park in the bike lane, right?

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#492

Post by Tinned_Tuna »

nonethewiser wrote: post #477
cbondurant wrote: post #125

I'd much rather all of the resources that are going into autonomous cars was instead going into proper public transit infrastructure. Cars are so hopelessly space and energy inefficient, and I hate driving them. If I could get around by bus, light rail, bike, and all of the wasted city space devoted to parking could be turned into more housing and amenities, that would be great. I think it would be meaningful to also…

>If I could get around by bus, light rail, bike, and all of the wasted city space devoted to parking could be turned into more housing and amenities, that would be great. I guess it depends on where we're talking about. The majority of the US is not inside a city. So just diverting all resources into public transportation is only serving the metros. If we're talking about a small country then sure.

> The majority of the US is not inside a city.

I think this isn't true for the US any more, maybe it hasn't been true for decades?

WorldBank seems to have the ubranisation rate at around 80% for the US: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locat...

There is a bit of a definitional problem, with people living in suburbs identifying as rural, as do folks in exurbs. I don't think they're considered rural, and they're concentrated enough that well-designed public transit could serve them quite well. A decent public transit system means that families in sub/exurbs can go from 2 cars to 1 car without a major drop in quality of life, but they'd save $5k - $10k per year.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#493

Post by TulliusCicero »

cbondurant wrote: post #125

I'd much rather all of the resources that are going into autonomous cars was instead going into proper public transit infrastructure. Cars are so hopelessly space and energy inefficient, and I hate driving them. If I could get around by bus, light rail, bike, and all of the wasted city space devoted to parking could be turned into more housing and amenities, that would be great. I think it would be meaningful to also…

People always say this, but

a) even countries known for good transit like Japan still have a ton of cars for various things, and

b) there's no getting around that the money going into self-driving cars vs public transit isn't something that can really be swapped. It's coming from a different place for a different reason.

We absolutely could invest into more trains even with the SDC money flowing anyway, it's not like the SDC money is blocking it. We collectively choose not to do this, and it's not Waymo's fault.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#494

Post by alterom »

giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

>Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace

"Interesting" is doing so much heavy lifting here.

Fully agreeing with your other points as well.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#495

Post by bluecalm »

People kill and hurt others in cars for many reasons but the main ones are:

-being dangerous on purpose (speeding, ignoring signs, tailgating etc.)

-being inattentive (phones, screens in general, being tired, being sleepy)

-road raging in many forms

As evidenced by comments in this thread and elsewhere people also have terrible judgement about reality on the roads - blaming cyclists, justifying speeding etc.

Self-driving cars remove all those from the equation. It would be shocking if they didn't save lives. We put too high a bar on them. It's a life saving tech and we should put them on the road yesterday and go from there.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#496

Post by nostrebored »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #478
tredre3 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took banning alcohol to mean lowering driving BAC to 0%, not banning alcohol society-wide. It would be a lot easier for drivers to have the following thought process: "I drank tonight, I can't drive home" rather than "I drank two beers over the period of 3 hours, am I good? Yeah, probably, let's gooo." > I'll torch a supporter's house for fun with some high-proof something or other for fun if someone tries it again…

I barely drink, but the previous attempt to ban it was terrible for society. I totally understand their thinking on this.

From what I’ve been able to read it seems like it was a net positive public health intervention that’s been horribly dramatized.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#497

Post by refactor_master »

timschmidt wrote: post #473
sosborn wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no practical reason we can't have good public transit AND better cars.

Well, besides the big three auto makers buying up all the public transit and decomissioning it.

No no the invisible hand of the market will fix it, you see. Car manufactures will become so big and pay so many taxes that we could pave every road with rail.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#498

Post by nostrebored »

PorciiVorbesc wrote: post #246
sensanaty wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise? My mother-in-law is in a wheelchair and zooms by on the bike paths faster than I do thanks to her handbike (it's seriously insane how fast people can move with handbikes), and if she needs to travel large distances she hops onto a train instead. The best par…

>You could always invest in actual public transport & sane infrastructure, rather than relying on clogging the streets up with more cars, autonomous or otherwise So what should the disabled people do until that amazing public transport infrastructure materializes, if it ever even does for them at all? Sit at home and wait? I dislike this type of patronizing superficial handweaving advice that is disconnected from the…

Huge amounts of insolvency is due to supporting this failed urban planning experiment. Urban centers are significantly more economically productive and significantly less expensive. Carism leads people into this trap when they should be advocating for significant expansion of dense cities and transit.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#499

Post by My_Name »

amazingamazing wrote: post #330
johnfn wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a biker, I've had human drivers intentionally try to drive me off the road or hit me. Neither driver education nor higher test standards will solve that problem.

Why do you say that?

If it is a thing that happened to them, why would you want them to not say it?

Also, the conclusion is sound from the experienced event.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#500

Post by saghm »

harha wrote: post #430
giantg2 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine these same people are the type of people who would throw something out the window of an AV too.

Nah I think the brain shuts down once you’re not in the driver seat. Wouldn’t see someone care enough to throw something at others from a taxi or a bus either.

If "road rage" is any indication, sometimes the reverse is true as well
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