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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#351

Post by fn-mote »

missinglugnut wrote: post #217
seizethecheese wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagreed with you and went looking in the article for evidence (yeah bad, epistemologically). I actually found evidence for your point. The largest cause of fatal crashes is Generally distracted or "lost in thought" (daydreaming) at 64%. That happens to most people,.

How many of those 64% had their accident because of phones/drugs/recklessness and claimed to be distracted instead? With all the liability and shame involved in fatal crashes there's absolutely no way people are going to honestly self report illegal behavior.

Phones definitely fall in that category. I’m guessing they are the majority, but I don’t know how to substantiate that.

Hopefully police are figuring out that one of the parties in the accident is high while they do the interview.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#353

Post by fn-mote »

throw0101a wrote: post #346
Gigachad wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while being hyperfocused the entire time ready to take over in an instant on the rare occasion something happens. While running or cycling your brain is actively engaged keeping yourself upright and avoiding obstacles which keeps you alert.

> The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while […] The average one-way commute time in the US is less than half an hour: * https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/commuting/guidance/... If you can't pay attention for less than 30 minutes should you really be operating a multi-ton death machine?

Their point is that a “driver take over autonomous” mode is useless because nobody would pay attention to their surroundings at all.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#354

Post by fn-mote »

annzabelle wrote: post #334
tialaramex wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. Humans are bad at this task. On the railways they have a problem with this too, "Lookout" seems like a ludicrously easy job, but it's basically impossible because you must pay attention to an incredibly boring thing for hours or your friends might die. Getting rid of human lookouts should be a priority but it feels easy and so it's hard to motivate this.

This is also a big challenge for airline pilots. The planes mostly fly themselves these days, and most takeoffs and landings are uneventful. Being an airline pilot involves an absolutely massive amount of business as usual and preparation, for the very rare times something happens and you suddenly need a team of very focused experts to solve a difficult problem in a stressful environment.

At least they have simulators. Last time I saw a driving simulator I was a teenager.

Imagine you had to pass a simulator test involving responding to ANY crisis while driving before your license would be renewed. Rates of driving would plummet.

I bet most drivers don’t even correctly handle a flat tire on the expressway.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#355

Post by madamelic »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #301
danieldevries wrote: post #17

Of course. This seems so obvious. More sensors with 360 degrees. Faster reaction time. Constantly improving, be it from real world data or from a simulated environment. Zero fatigue. No emotion evolved. No drugs are alcohol in the system. Fyi. Long robotaxis.

But they still cannot drive cars. All this stuff can do is react very slowly, maybe, if it detects it, to a change in the environment. Self-driving cars will never be safer than human drivers. If you believe otherwise, show actual proof of some kind. Show some footage of self-driving cars doing anything other than blundering around like an inexperienced and impaired driver.

FSD avoiding a deer at night at highway speeds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmZBEK2Wk

FSD driving in decently heavy rain (this is mine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKePEavEhv

Both of the above aren't current consumer models and the Cybercabs run one major version above this.

I've seen it avoid small rodents and deer that were hidden in foliage around a blind turn, it's super freaky with what it sees that humans can't and this is with only cameras. It is really good, in my experience, at reasoning about other vehicles and what they are about to do such as seeing a vehicle not slowing down quickly enough at a stop sign its crossing so it slows itself down to make sure the car stops. My favorite story is that it swerved out of the way of someone doing a u-turn from the opposing lane hidden behind another car; it had already gotten us out of the way before anyone in the car realized what had happened.

An AV is already superhuman because it never loses focus, it can see all the way around the car, and it can react quicker than any human, besides maybe an F1 driver, could.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#357

Post by socalgal2 »

throw0101a wrote: post #338
coqadoodle wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Fewer than drivers, given that drivers tend to ignore the rules of the road more per a Danish government study: * https://politiken.dk/danmark/art7185605/Rygterne-om-cykliste... * Via: https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/... And perhaps more drivers should take up some cycling as it would make them better drivers (per a UK insurance company) * https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/ca…

Ridiculous and trivially provably false. (maybe Danish are different)

Go to any intersection in SF or LA. Set up a camera. Count the number of cars and cyclists that break a traffic law. Cars will be 5-10% breaking the laws. Cyclists will be 95-97% breaking the laws.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#358

Post by Gigachad »

goda90 wrote: post #305
Gigachad wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would positively impact lower classes because car ownership is by far the biggest financial drain you can take on.

Only if there's affordable transportation available.

There's a large percent of people who have their daily commute possible by public transport, but the weekend or odd trips are not well covered. A cheaper uber powered by self driving would cover the odd trips and save people the massive expense of owning a car.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#360

Post by robner »

socalgal2 wrote: post #348
giantg2 wrote: post #234

Better driver education and higher test standards would save lives too. So would banning alcohol. None of these solutions, including automated cars, will be mandated any time soon. It's not enough to have data, you also have to have societal buy-in. Interesting that Waymo chooses to compare accident rates with the average driver vs the rideshare drivers their cars replace. The numbers wouldn't look as impressive beca…

In my circle, everyone who's tried Waymo never wants to use Uber/Lyft with a human driver again. And, many of them wish they could own one or at least use one for much longer drives (100s of miles). I would visit my mom (2hrs by car) more often if that 2hrs (each way) wasn't so stressful and exhausting and I could just be chauffeured by a self driving car while I browse the net, play a game, watch a movie, or talk to…

In the Netherlands were I live we use trains for this
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