191–200 of 289 posts
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Goods (and services) are priced at what the customer is willing to pay. In this case, the alternative is cash or cheques, both have much higher loss rates. That’s why vendors are eager to take visa over cash.
No, the alternatives are any number of other solutions that are not given a look-in to the very lucrative duopoly. The network effects are prohibitive for upstarts.
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I'm just seeing what looks like an attempt to sell me a PDF. What actually is the source of such costs? The cashier still has to be paid even if the customer is using a card. Presumably there isn't anywhere near that much theft from registers, or people messing up giving change?
Employee theft. Store manager theft. Robberies. Counterfeits. The extra time spent at each cash transaction and re-counting at the end of the day. Going to the bank, or paying an armored car service. Banks charge merchants a percentage of each cash deposit. Buying safes and pointing cameras down at each register.
Don’t forget arbitrage, which is the withholding of transferred funds for 7 days while the capital remains in visa’s accounts for “investing” / speculation. It’s like if you gave your buddy $100 to give to his room mate, and he decides to wait a week and gamble it on Kalshi
>It’s like if you gave your buddy $100 to give to his room mate, and he decides to wait a week and gamble it on Kalshi Or treasuries. Its actually a minor part of rheir business. And frankly who cares given that its a sustainable system. I pay on credit and then someone else pays. I dont give a shit of they are betting on how many times Al Roker says Trump on New Years Eve.
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There is, it's called debit cards, but Stripe et al. "simplified" pricing by charging a percentage regardless of card type instead of the traditional interchange-plus pricing. Merchant banks "used to" make money by tacking on fixed fees, i.e. a set-up fee, terminal fee, monthly fee, etc, but then Stripe came along and provided (1) a better dev experience, (2) better onboarding, and (3) simplified pricing.
Also debit cards run by smaller credit unions charge credit-card like fees (and then are used by fintechs to earn fees while making it harder to pass those fees on to end users).
VisaNet & friends make the modern consumer world go round. The fees they extract are a drop in the bucket compared to the economic activity that they enable with their networks. Many businesses simply couldn't exist without something approximating this. https://investor.visa.com/news/news-details/2016/Visa-Commis...
> VisaNet & friends make the modern consumer world go round. I mean, as opposed to what? You could apply this to any infrastructure cartel like with AT&T in the 90s or Comcast or 100s of historical examples. The alternative to a bridge troll is not ”no bridge”.
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Debit cards are not subject to surcharging, and any merchant doing so is violating Visa/Mastercard regulations. (And possibly state law in several places -- Colorado where I live caps surcharge at the lesser of 2% or the cost of payment processing.)
Correct, Toast specifically will not allow it under any circumstance. Debit cards issued by smaller community banks or credit unions are exempt from the cap and carry higher interchange rates (often 1.0%–1.65% + $0.10). All merchants should either do Surcharging or Cash Discount.
There’s a whole industry of mid-sized banks just below that which are offering their services as sponsor banks to fintechs that want to earn the orders of magnitudes higher interchange rates while still getting debit acceptance/less surcharges and being allowed to offer a debit product.
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Debit cards are not subject to surcharging, and any merchant doing so is violating Visa/Mastercard regulations. (And possibly state law in several places -- Colorado where I live caps surcharge at the lesser of 2% or the cost of payment processing.)
It’s 2% or actual cost for credit cards. Under subparagraph f)A seller or lessor shall not impose a surcharge if a customer elects to pay for goods or services by Check, cash, debit card, processing as a debit payment, or gift card. eCheck is considered a check. https://colorado.public.law/statutes/crs_5-2-212
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Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type. But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps wi…
You get charged higher prices and then have to use a credit card to recoup the loss, so that rent-seeking monopolists can make money. And Americans are also seemingly baffled by the idea of regulating this away, as if other countries doing this don't exist. Credit cards are the USA epitomized.
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R41913
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/new-rules-el...
American sellers have had the option to collect however much extra they want from people paying with credit cards, and many do. The government, utilities, mobile network providers, insurance, schools, healthcare, gas stations, home contractors, etc all usually collect at least 2% to 3% more if a buyer wants to pay with a credit card.
I am down to only using my credit cards for retail purchases, restaurants, and travel. Otherwise, the extra cost of paying with credit cards don't make sense and I pay with debit card or electronic money transfer (ACH/Zelle).
Basically, the sellers that continue to collect the same price from credit card users and non credit card users are those who believe that incentivizing credit card usage will result in sufficient people paying sufficiently higher prices such that it offsets the processing costs of the credit card transaction (and the chargeback risk).
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For US readers - in my country in europe I'd say that 95% of people have only debit card, not credit card. it's very not common to have a credit card here. Card payments are extremely common, but everyone uses debit card.
The EU caps all card interchange fees at 0.3% for credit cards and 0.2% for debit, which is an order of magnitude lower than some of the fees in the US. That’s why you don’t see the same kinds of credit card deals in the EU compared to the US.
The EU limits for card fees prevent this in Europe, which is very good.
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This depends heavily on the country you’re in. In the UK banks are required to refund you within a single business day if they don’t have any evidence that the customer isn’t trying to defraud the bank themselves. They try to squirm out of that of course. But in general getting your money back isn’t too tricky even with a debit card.
Oh yeah. I should definitely caveat: I am in the US. I think banks here are required to cap your loss to $50 USD if you report unauthorized fraud within two business days. But still, the onus is on you. Meanwhile, virtually all credit cards in the US offer $0 liability protection. Which means at most you pay nothing.