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What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

tautology.town

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Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#171

Post by 4lx87 »

losvedir wrote: post #139
ianhawes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, it's called debit cards, but Stripe et al. "simplified" pricing by charging a percentage regardless of card type instead of the traditional interchange-plus pricing. Merchant banks "used to" make money by tacking on fixed fees, i.e. a set-up fee, terminal fee, monthly fee, etc, but then Stripe came along and provided (1) a better dev experience, (2) better onboarding, and (3) simplified pricing.

Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type. But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps wi…

You get charged higher prices and then have to use a credit card to recoup the loss, so that rent-seeking monopolists can make money. And Americans are also seemingly baffled by the idea of regulating this away, as if other countries doing this don't exist. Credit cards are the USA epitomized.

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#172

Post by 4lx87 »

eastbayjake wrote: post #155
losvedir wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type. But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps wi…

Debit cards are not subject to surcharging, and any merchant doing so is violating Visa/Mastercard regulations. (And possibly state law in several places -- Colorado where I live caps surcharge at the lesser of 2% or the cost of payment processing.)

Prices reflect the credit card merchant fees, even if there's no separate surcharge. People pay higher prices and anyone who doesn't use a credit card to recoup some in "rewards" is effectively getting taxed.

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#173

Post by soared »

hadrien01 wrote: post #19
techdmn wrote: post #7

I remember reading a comment here a while back about merchants being offered a discount on the processing fee if they also transmitted detailed data about the purchase (essentially the data that would be on the receipt). That data could then be resold on to advertisers. Does anyone remember this or have links to more data? (Not having much luck with search, maybe I'm hallucinating the whole thing.)

Level 2/3 data: https://docs.adyen.com/payment-methods/cards/enhanced-scheme... It's only available in the US, many countries have lower interchange fees and prohibit sending this data.

Also available in Canada now!

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#174

Post by soared »

RobRivera wrote: post #24
techdmn wrote: post #7

I remember reading a comment here a while back about merchants being offered a discount on the processing fee if they also transmitted detailed data about the purchase (essentially the data that would be on the receipt). That data could then be resold on to advertisers. Does anyone remember this or have links to more data? (Not having much luck with search, maybe I'm hallucinating the whole thing.)

This would explain why so many damn coffee shops dont deal with cash now - the double as a coffee shop and data reseller

Coffee shops don’t qualify for l2/l3

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#175

Post by supertrope »

asdff wrote: post #156
supertrope wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash allows for many more opportunities for diversion.

You know they count the till against the reciepts right? And frequently have cameras over the register drawer pointed at the employee? And send people to jail who try to do this?

My point is you cannot entirely eliminate insider theft just suppress it. Cash payments are a lot "leakier."

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#176

Post by KptMarchewa »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #166
jimbob45 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to wait for the investigation to complete to receive compensation if you’re hit by fraud on a debit card. Credit cards don’t share that issue. If you’re poor or living paycheck-to-paycheck, debit cards are potentially a risk to your livelihood.

The underlying problem is that the whole concept of cards is insane. Basically, you go around telling every shopkeeper the code for your safe, and ask them to take however much cash you owe them out of the safe. Sane ways to organize payments: - Merchant gives you a bill-id. You input it into your bank website - where you see the bill amount being charged. You accept, and bank pays merchant. - You give merchant your…

> You go to your bank website and obtain a random number, either allowing a single transaction or a recurring transaction. You give the merchant the number. After merchant charges it, no other merchant can charge the same number.

That's basically how Blik works in Poland. With the exception being that the number is random 6 digits randomly generated when you open the app, that is active for ~2 minutes. So you don't deal with the issue of very long and error prone numbers to copy.

Much better way to pay online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#178

Post by cmurf »

eastbayjake wrote: post #155
losvedir wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type. But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps wi…

Debit cards are not subject to surcharging, and any merchant doing so is violating Visa/Mastercard regulations. (And possibly state law in several places -- Colorado where I live caps surcharge at the lesser of 2% or the cost of payment processing.)

It’s 2% or actual cost for credit cards.

Under subparagraph f)A seller or lessor shall not impose a surcharge if a customer elects to pay for goods or services by Check, cash, debit card, processing as a debit payment, or gift card.

eCheck is considered a check.

https://colorado.public.law/statutes/crs_5-2-212

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#179

Post by zaphirplane »

LeBit wrote: post #151
losvedir wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type. But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps wi…

As a Canadian , I thought that was the expected de facto way of using credit cards: you pay everything with it so you get rewards (ie money) at the end of the year as a function of how much you used the card during the year. At the end of the month, you pay whatever the outstanding balance is, otherwise you pay high interests.

There are fees thou and i cant imagine they are losing out as a business

Re: What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks

#180

Post by thechao »

seabre wrote: post #106
jimbob45 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to wait for the investigation to complete to receive compensation if you’re hit by fraud on a debit card. Credit cards don’t share that issue. If you’re poor or living paycheck-to-paycheck, debit cards are potentially a risk to your livelihood.

As someone who has been hit with fraud on a debit card and a credit card, the process to recover money from fraud on a credit card is so much easier and more hassle-free than a debit card. The big difference is that with a debit card, it's your money that is hit by fraud. The debit card is basically just a proxy. You have to go file a police report. You have to hope the bank will give you the money back. When the cre…

> The big difference is that with a debit card, it's your money that is hit by fraud.

I kind of disagree. I think what's happened is the bank would prefer you to believe that. Imagine I kept my money at the bank, and deposited $10000 with the teller. Immediately afterward a robber follows in and steals that $10000 from the teller. Does the bank say "oh no Mr. TheChao! A robber stole your $10000!". I mean, no? The bank got robbed. Just because the bank's digital security is more tied one-to-one to dollars and its easier for a robber to steal from "my till" doesn't mean it was me who was robbed. It's the bank's job to stop that.

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