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Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#91

Post by sph »

guywithahat wrote: post #62
ActionHank wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am deeply envious that you have dodged the slop trenches and get to walk into a somewhat cleaner solution. The rest of us have to clean up and maintain the slop and it's depressing as hell.

Ironic, I'm upset that I'm still writing code like it's 2016. I've been pushing hard for AI tools, and I've convinced management that it's a good idea but now they're playing "favorite company" and not actually delivering tools. I do think it's more fun to write code, but this isn't about fun it's about delivering a high quality product and no one can do that anymore without AI tools. Knowing you're practicing obsole…

> it's about delivering a high quality product and no one can do that anymore without AI tools

Citation needed.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#92

Post by dainiusse »

OnionBlender wrote: post #86
dainiusse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. The interviews I had were all impossible without AI given the time frame.

Were these take home assignments or live coding? It sounds weird to interview someone just to watching them use an AI agent.

Both - timed take home (3 hour limit) as well as in 1 hour live coding. The scope was impossible for that time be a coder whatever you are. Not sure if was enough time for raw typing.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#93

Post by archagon »

cracell wrote: post #39
vermilingua wrote: post #19

I don't touch LLMs for any purpose (when I can help it, they are frequently shoved in your face regardless); and up until recently was doing just fine. I was fired for this stance, not for performance reasons (officially stated that there was no concern with my output), only for political reasons (insubordination, refusing to use LLMs to do my work for me). I have been seeing fewer and fewer job ads that ask for/requ…

Regardless of if a new tool is useful or not, if it’s being pushed internally then embrace it. If it’s not useful now you have authority on why. And if it’s not is useful then you are better at your job.

Not OP, but…

“When you're in Hollywood and you're a comedian, everybody wants you to do other things. All right, you're a stand-up comedian, can you write us a script? That's not fair. That's like if I worked hard to become a cook, and I'm a really good cook, they'd say, ‘OK, you're a cook. Can you farm?’” —Mitch Hedberg

LLM-assisted coding is basically an entirely different career from software engineering, and not everyone wants to do that. (Ditto here; fortunately, I’m self-employed.)

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#94

Post by archagon »

nater5000 wrote: post #71
vermilingua wrote: post #19

I don't touch LLMs for any purpose (when I can help it, they are frequently shoved in your face regardless); and up until recently was doing just fine. I was fired for this stance, not for performance reasons (officially stated that there was no concern with my output), only for political reasons (insubordination, refusing to use LLMs to do my work for me). I have been seeing fewer and fewer job ads that ask for/requ…

I mean, even outside the context, you ought to be fired for not doing what your employer is telling you to do. Being fired for insubordination is not really "political"; it's the epitome of a performance reason. You're literally refusing to do your job. Your performance in this regard is as bad as it can get. A political reason would be something like, your manager was threatened by your capabilities and set you up f…

The job is to make widgets, not to use specific tools to make widgets. When has that ever been the case before? None of my bosses ever gave a shit what editors I used, for example. Certainly not the CEOs.

You sound weirdly angry and aggressive — like in a “back away slowly” kind of way. Relax, and stop gatekeeping the industry. As strange as it may sound to you, I expect that there will always be segments of it that don’t rely on LLMs.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#95

Post by archagon »

voakbasda wrote: post #46

I am working on an embedded device where AI coding has been contractually prohibited. I use it for learning about APIs and modern tools, but all of the code comes from my brain. The reason is that the issue of AI copyrights has not been resolved, and this product will be sold to parts of the government that care. That said, their stance has been wavering, given the apparent inevitability that AI-washing of copyrighte…

That seems like folly, since some courts somewhere will surely, at some point, find these LLMs to be in (IMO, fairly obvious) violation of copyright and/or license terms. Especially when it’s geopolitically expedient. Especially as the rage over AI builds in the general populace.

Congrats! Now your product can’t be sold in X arbitrary countries. Or it’s auto-GPL licensed and you’re forced to release your code.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#96

Post by eudamoniac »

vermilingua wrote: post #19

I don't touch LLMs for any purpose (when I can help it, they are frequently shoved in your face regardless); and up until recently was doing just fine. I was fired for this stance, not for performance reasons (officially stated that there was no concern with my output), only for political reasons (insubordination, refusing to use LLMs to do my work for me). I have been seeing fewer and fewer job ads that ask for/requ…

As a fellow contrarian, I applaud your resolve. I was constructively dismissed for refusing the COVID vax a few years ago. But I think in this case where there was no concern about output, it would be better for you to just pretend to use it. Then you would soon become the most/only knowledgeable dev, be able to leverage that into promotions or new jobs, etc. I know it's distasteful to pretend to believe what you don't believe, but this might be a serious enough matter to justify it.

I went through interviews recently; I told everyone what I think they wanted to hear about my AI usage based on their demeanor; I got a new job; I pretend to use AI at this new job. Either we're right and AI mandates get walked back, so we're in a good spot, or we're wrong and we need to hold onto our jobs for dear life.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#97

Post by eudamoniac »

nater5000 wrote: post #71
vermilingua wrote: post #19

I don't touch LLMs for any purpose (when I can help it, they are frequently shoved in your face regardless); and up until recently was doing just fine. I was fired for this stance, not for performance reasons (officially stated that there was no concern with my output), only for political reasons (insubordination, refusing to use LLMs to do my work for me). I have been seeing fewer and fewer job ads that ask for/requ…

I mean, even outside the context, you ought to be fired for not doing what your employer is telling you to do. Being fired for insubordination is not really "political"; it's the epitome of a performance reason. You're literally refusing to do your job. Your performance in this regard is as bad as it can get. A political reason would be something like, your manager was threatened by your capabilities and set you up f…

> If you think LLMs are a fad that will just go away if you wait long enough, then you need to just remove yourself from this industry. They're not going away, for better or worse, and this kind of work is fundamentally changing.

They don't have to "go away"; managers just have to stop requiring their usage. In a sane business they will care about output, not tokens. If OP cannot keep up his output because he refuses to use it, sure, fire him. But in my experience the good devs can still keep up. Your post is only true if AIs improve enough that no developer can possibly keep up without them. That is not today, and maybe not tomorrow.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#98

Post by [deleted] »

jplusequalt wrote: post #37
andreybaskov wrote: post #13

I’ve learned for myself that I need to write code just to keep my brain in shape - same as going to the gym to be healthy. Even though agents are building all of my code now, I’m starting every morning with a LeetCode problem. There is no practical use, but it make me feel good and sharp for the rest of the day. For anyone coping with AI I suggest to give it a try, and stick to it for some time, just like with a gym.

>I’m starting every morning with a LeetCode problem. Keeping with your example, this is the equivalent of going to the gym just to do a single set on the bench press. Your brain is still atrophying.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#99

Post by cyberpunk »

sph wrote: post #87
cyberpunk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure about that? The effort put into a leetcode medium or hard is usually way above the kind of code i’m mostly doing at work — and realistically i only have at most 2 hours a day of that level of work in me, the rest is the autopilot code, reviews meetings, docs etc. I’ve found aoc/leetcode pretty much reversed the accidental atrophy for me

There is more to software engineering than solving code puzzles. What about debugging, writing clean code, writing effective tests, architecture, optimization, profiling etc.? None of these are exercised by doing leetcode. Use it or lose it.

Well i’ve been working through adventofcode in various languages and im def spending a lot of time in my debugger.

shrug

Re: Ask HN: Anyone still coding like 2021? Where do you work?

#100

Post by arw0n »

andreybaskov wrote: post #13

I’ve learned for myself that I need to write code just to keep my brain in shape - same as going to the gym to be healthy. Even though agents are building all of my code now, I’m starting every morning with a LeetCode problem. There is no practical use, but it make me feel good and sharp for the rest of the day. For anyone coping with AI I suggest to give it a try, and stick to it for some time, just like with a gym.

Agreed, there's a couple of bad behavioral shifts I noted for me when doing agentic coding:

- Doing too much at the same time, it is super exhausting, and I get nervous and stressed

- Sycophancy makes me overestimate myself

- When my stress meets external pressure, quality goes down. The little voice of 'surely the AI got it right' can lead to defects and code quality going down.

Except for doing some manual coding, I've started doing a couple of other things that are probably just healthy regardless of using AI heavily in day to day life:

- Do literally nothing for at least half an hour. Read something written by humans, even better if it is fiction.

- Do something that makes you feel stupid. And don't use AI to help you through it. (That could be Leetcode, but for me it is learning about statistics)

- Slow down when you feel like things are moving too fast. By far the hardest thing, but the moment I realize I'm trying to rush for a deadline, I'm going out for a walk. Realistically, I'm moving 3-8x faster than before, this little delay is nothing, and keeps me sane and quality on a good level.

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