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Shopify acquires Tailwind

tailwindcss.com

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Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you enjoy reviewing your entire code base and relying on an extremely detailed regression suite just to make simple changes? I don't think AI changes good engineering at all, it just changes who or what is doing it.

It definitely changes some aspects of good engineering. I'm not a huge AI person but it's obvious a host of great tools we've built to deal with our challenges would not have been significant if we had LLMs. A very crude example: to translate code into a different language someone would need to write a tokenizer, a parser, an AST and finally a translator. All significant engineering challenges, taking days to finish.…

> to translate code into a different language someone would need to write a tokenizer, a parser, an AST and finally a translator. All significant engineering challenges, taking days to finish. Nowadays you can tell an LLM to do that in minutes.

Do people do that on a regular basis? The most recurring case of building the above is when someone wants to include a language into a project and they usually don't bother with a translator. The second case is when transpilling (ex. LESS to CSS) and that's more akin to macro and other preprocessing tricks than a full blown translation.

> we could easily argue that CSS wouldn't have existed if LLMs existed and could create table layouts from pasted images in a chat window.

All current UI and Document conceptual models include styles (either as direct properties or separate models) and some does include named styles. The novel aspect of CSS is the Cascading concept, not the styling part. And cascading is obvious when we consider that there was supposed to be user stylesheets for documents. I read epub and user stylesheets (created from UI) is crucial.

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#152
post #65
post #6

Here's some context on the impact AI had on the Tailwind Labs business model from January: https://github.com/tailwindlabs/tailwindcss.com/pull/2388#is... > But the reality is that 75% of the people on our engineering team lost their jobs here yesterday because of the brutal impact AI has had on our business. [...] > Traffic to our docs is down about 40% from early 2023 despite Tailwind being more popular than ever.…

I made this point at the time but Tailwind Labs' business model shouldn't exist. It irks people because they wanna blame AI for it but they were coasting and should be happy it lasted this long. Tailwind's business model existed due to a massive inefficiency in the frontend industry not being able to come to terms with CSS or native components. They surfed the wave of JS frontends becoming ever more complicated. If i…

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Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#153
post #65
post #6

Here's some context on the impact AI had on the Tailwind Labs business model from January: https://github.com/tailwindlabs/tailwindcss.com/pull/2388#is... > But the reality is that 75% of the people on our engineering team lost their jobs here yesterday because of the brutal impact AI has had on our business. [...] > Traffic to our docs is down about 40% from early 2023 despite Tailwind being more popular than ever.…

I made this point at the time but Tailwind Labs' business model shouldn't exist. It irks people because they wanna blame AI for it but they were coasting and should be happy it lasted this long. Tailwind's business model existed due to a massive inefficiency in the frontend industry not being able to come to terms with CSS or native components. They surfed the wave of JS frontends becoming ever more complicated. If i…

I disagree.

Ready-made UI components and templates have been million-dollar businesses for a lot of companies for a long, long time.

Finding space in a development ecosystem to provide a set of purpose-built tools is a common and healthy software business pattern.

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. There have been perfectly good free date picker widgets available for every era of web development, going back to clunky server-rendered html templates.

Seriously. I always wonder who makes these comments, then I remember I'm old and there are people who don't remember every era of the web. Although, it's still incredibly weird to essentially claim that Tailwind solved date pickers.

You have to remember the biggest appeal of tailwind is that it throws away the entire cascade of css. The people that reach for it are choosing it because it offers less functionality, and is therefore simpler to reason about. I hesitate to say they don't understand css, I'm sure some of them do, but in my experience the devs that reach for it are the same who deride css and make statements such as "I have better things to do than learn css"

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#155
post #42

Serious question: is there a need to reach for tailwind if you are building a new site? Won't using vanilla CSS while taking advantage of the latest features be pretty good, since humans are not manually making edits (which removes many of the pain points of maintaining CSS), while simplifying dependency and the build pipeline?

Not at all, I personally never used nor plan to.

I am a big advocate of classes, not inline styles spaghetti.

The only contact I had with it was due to FE teams jumping into it, however every couple of months is something else anyway.

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#156
post #42

Serious question: is there a need to reach for tailwind if you are building a new site? Won't using vanilla CSS while taking advantage of the latest features be pretty good, since humans are not manually making edits (which removes many of the pain points of maintaining CSS), while simplifying dependency and the build pipeline?

Personally I still find it really helpful to have a proven framework to rely on so that I can be confident I'll have a reasonably consistent looking UI across a range of browsers, browser versions, screen sizes, and OS even versions.

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#157
post #42

Serious question: is there a need to reach for tailwind if you are building a new site? Won't using vanilla CSS while taking advantage of the latest features be pretty good, since humans are not manually making edits (which removes many of the pain points of maintaining CSS), while simplifying dependency and the build pipeline?

Believe me, I try all the time. But HTML and CSS are not made for the modern web.

Styling radio buttons, working date inputs, forms that POST automatically, typeahead and server-side validation (eg username already taken.)

You spend all your time reinventing the wheel and then it's buggy and looks like a dog. To say nothing of the inevitable poly fills and Cross-Browser issues.

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#159
post #42

Serious question: is there a need to reach for tailwind if you are building a new site? Won't using vanilla CSS while taking advantage of the latest features be pretty good, since humans are not manually making edits (which removes many of the pain points of maintaining CSS), while simplifying dependency and the build pipeline?

Believe me, I try all the time. But HTML and CSS are not made for the modern web. Styling radio buttons, working date inputs, forms that POST automatically, typeahead and server-side validation (eg username already taken.) You spend all your time reinventing the wheel and then it's buggy and looks like a dog. To say nothing of the inevitable poly fills and Cross-Browser issues.

How does tailwind solve this vs. vanilla CSS?

Re: Shopify acquires Tailwind

#160
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, Tailwind is just inline CSS with standardised defaults. I think it found its place because most React devs didn't want to bother with CSS

Oh why can't this idea die, it has been continuously debunked for 6 years now. So much so, any TW discussion will reiterate it.

Why would it die? How would it die? The vast majority of Tailwind is literally just shorthand for individual CSS properties.
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