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Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

desertant.com

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Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#61

Post by visarga »

Muromec wrote: post #41
handfuloflight wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not obvious and fair that they are asking you to pay them when you see success (defined as >100K MAU)? How more aligned can you and them be besides this?

When I buy I chair I don't pay a share of my income to the furniture shop when I get rich. I would buy another chair at some point too, maybe fancier one (or the same). Because chairs are commodity. I do however pay taxes to the government based on my income because it keeps doing ongoing maintenance on everything . Everyone wants to be paid forever for something they produced once is some kind of a mind virus. Make…

> When I buy I chair

You should, sitting on that chair got you in the zone where you made it rich. /s

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#62

Post by 1dom »

handfuloflight wrote: post #45
Muromec wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy I chair I don't pay a share of my income to the furniture shop when I get rich. I would buy another chair at some point too, maybe fancier one (or the same). Because chairs are commodity. I do however pay taxes to the government based on my income because it keeps doing ongoing maintenance on everything . Everyone wants to be paid forever for something they produced once is some kind of a mind virus. Make…

Analogy doesn't apply to this case, as you are paying for the chair upfront but not paying for the model weights upfront.

The only reason my chair manufacturer would be entitled to the proceeds of my success whilst I was in their chair is if I hadn't already paid them for the work they put into making the chair for me. Even then, why would my success with their product have anything to do with how much they can charge me for their labour? What other things work like that outside of the modern tech world?

Seriously, look around you, pick a thing, imagine a world where the price you paid for that thing hinged on your personal individual success with that thing.

edit: to clarify, my point is why can't we pay for the model weights up front for offline models? Why would we continue paying for things we don't want/need anymore, like updates for offline software that does it's job fine?

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#63

Post by handfuloflight »

1dom wrote: post #62
handfuloflight wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogy doesn't apply to this case, as you are paying for the chair upfront but not paying for the model weights upfront.

The only reason my chair manufacturer would be entitled to the proceeds of my success whilst I was in their chair is if I hadn't already paid them for the work they put into making the chair for me. Even then, why would my success with their product have anything to do with how much they can charge me for their labour? What other things work like that outside of the modern tech world? Seriously, look around you, pick…

If they charged for the weights up front, then your critique would simply reverse.

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#65

Post by adhi001 »

Muromec wrote: post #41
handfuloflight wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not obvious and fair that they are asking you to pay them when you see success (defined as >100K MAU)? How more aligned can you and them be besides this?

When I buy I chair I don't pay a share of my income to the furniture shop when I get rich. I would buy another chair at some point too, maybe fancier one (or the same). Because chairs are commodity. I do however pay taxes to the government based on my income because it keeps doing ongoing maintenance on everything . Everyone wants to be paid forever for something they produced once is some kind of a mind virus. Make…

A model's weights can be pirated unlike a chair and that is the difference..?

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#66

Post by 1dom »

chadash wrote: post #60
1dom wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issues you're describing are all modern internet software issues. I'd guess you're possibly a bit younger than me, or maybe forgotten how software worked before about 2010. - All compiled software is static. New versions are released. I'm happy to pay for new versions/features if I want/need them. But if the version I have is working offline, it doesn't need security updates, and if it does what I need, i…

I'm old enough to remember buying software in cardboard boxes at Bestbuy. > I don't know how to respond to this point, it's a bit of a strawman. Why is it a strawman? I can sell you software for $100 once or I can sell it to you for $10/month. I don't think anyone is suggesting that I'm gonna sell it for $10 once though. In particular, Desert Ant is saying their software is free for 100k active devices per SDK. That'…

It's a strawman because it only makes sense if the one off up front cost is $50k, which wasn't the argument I was making. If the one-off up front cost is $20, then your point makes no sense - your boss would have no issue.

An alternative would be instead of 1 of charging over 100k users $50k, charge every user a one off $20.

I guess it's hard to discuss alternative billing methods without knowing what need to be recuperated.

Thanks for the response, appreciated. Again, sorry for the sassyness.

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#67

Post by horsawlarway »

chadash wrote: post #60
1dom wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issues you're describing are all modern internet software issues. I'd guess you're possibly a bit younger than me, or maybe forgotten how software worked before about 2010. - All compiled software is static. New versions are released. I'm happy to pay for new versions/features if I want/need them. But if the version I have is working offline, it doesn't need security updates, and if it does what I need, i…

I'm old enough to remember buying software in cardboard boxes at Bestbuy. > I don't know how to respond to this point, it's a bit of a strawman. Why is it a strawman? I can sell you software for $100 once or I can sell it to you for $10/month. I don't think anyone is suggesting that I'm gonna sell it for $10 once though. In particular, Desert Ant is saying their software is free for 100k active devices per SDK. That'…

50k annually for a static set of weights is actually crazy, though.

As in - I make software for a living and they can fuck off. Produce the item. Sell the item at a cost you find reasonable. Convince me to buy it again with an upgrade that's worth buying.

Period.

There's no "service" happening here. If anything, the proposed cost model just makes me incredibly unlikely to engage at all, because it means they're going to insist on trying to track my users (a thing I don't like doing...) with whatever bloatware they shove into their "sdk".

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#68

Post by avazhi »

serf wrote: post #30
Aurornis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm happy with the weights you've given me, and I'm not using your compute for inference and not wanting or needing any updates off you, why should you continue getting money off me and my customers? Because they own the IP and they get to decide the terms of how it’s licensed. This is like a company taking open source software, saying they like the code the community has given them, and asking why they should c…

>Because they own the IP and they get to decide the terms of how it’s licensed. how'd that work out for the rest of IP owners that had their stuff used as training data for use in model creation? was the material they trained on produced in-house?

> how'd that work out for the rest of IP owners that had their stuff used as training data for use in model creation? was the material they trained on produced in-house?

Not only did you pull a whataboutism but the whataboutism isn't even relevant to the topic of conversation lol.

Re: Desert Ant Labs: local, fast models that run on device

#69

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

adhi001 wrote: post #65
Muromec wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy I chair I don't pay a share of my income to the furniture shop when I get rich. I would buy another chair at some point too, maybe fancier one (or the same). Because chairs are commodity. I do however pay taxes to the government based on my income because it keeps doing ongoing maintenance on everything . Everyone wants to be paid forever for something they produced once is some kind of a mind virus. Make…

A model's weights can be pirated unlike a chair and that is the difference..?

What does that have to do with the business model?
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