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I resigned from Anthropic today

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Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#871
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm somewhat skeptical of some of the crazier ideas too. But the hugging face incident was actually very large. It was not a single agent, it was not a single target, and it was not a single event. If nothing else, that's a bit of a warning as to what can happen next time (By accident, or if a government decides to go on purpose). For now let's assume the worst that can happen is that some important/significant chunk…

Despite all of your hyping up of the Huggingface incident it ultimately caused zero actual damage.

Is drunk driving safe if you happen to not crash the last time you did it?

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lame argument. Questioning his financial incentive is very legit. Why should we trust him?

Questioning his finances is a poor argument because he clearly would have more money if he had stayed at Anthropic for the next couple of years, than he will have by leaving. Even if he still has vested options, or savings from his salary or whatever, those would be larger if he stayed.

Unless, of course, he starts working for a competitor at a higher salary. I'm sure whoever is paying him will be free of the ethical concerns he here expressed.

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#873

“ No other human activity poses this level of danger.” I really, really disagree with that statement. I don’t think ai models come close to nuclear weapons or to run-of-the-mill, everyday carbon emissions in terms of danger to humanity. What’s the most dangerous thing that’s happened with an LLM so far? (This question is serious - maybe I don’t know the right examples.) Example 1: I’m aware of a small number of peopl…

What? Shutting down infrastructure, destroying critical records (economic collapse), spoofing / impersonating world leaders (confusion, panic, world war, nuclear event), taking over comms generally (you get a message to evacuate your home due to impending disaster, is it real?). All these could cause sufficient chaos and fear as to instigate global collapse. Once the panic sets in after a few of these indicidents, unrest and rebellion can occur, causing authoritarian backlashes or civil wars. IoT and precision ag can be controlled to disrupt supply chain and food supply. Forging documents to cause mass evictings, bankruptcy, credit disruption, transfer of property, asset seizure, arrests / SWAT-ing. Intelligence / signal gathering devices can be corrupted to spread misinfo and cause massive disruption or conflict. This is all possible today with enough hacking ability and malicious intent.

Anyone's life can be suddenly ruined: falsified criminal record, banks drained, credit cards maxed, phone numbers repossessed, internet, water, power shutoff. Friends and family sent your fabricated suicide note, warrants for your arrest issued to local and feds for kidnapping and threat to the president, etc. Injecting tons of copyrighted or illegal material into your hard drives, falsiying messages from your account and sending them publicly containing damning material. Sending messages to employees / employers to destroy business / work relationships. Harnessing your social media to destroy your life or cause panic. Getting you put onto pharmacy watch list so you can't access medications. Its very possible to ruin lives and destabilize the world without money or a physical body.

Now imagine this at scale and how it would affect the world at large if this was covertly done to a substantial portion of society and/or world leaders. Hell just shutting off all the "smart refrigerators" for a few days would cause a massive disruption to the first world.

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#875

“ No other human activity poses this level of danger.” I really, really disagree with that statement. I don’t think ai models come close to nuclear weapons or to run-of-the-mill, everyday carbon emissions in terms of danger to humanity. What’s the most dangerous thing that’s happened with an LLM so far? (This question is serious - maybe I don’t know the right examples.) Example 1: I’m aware of a small number of peopl…

This is evidence of example 2. The worst parts of it are infohazardous. Organizations that work at the intersection of biosecurity and AI have strong NDAs and the like. Or so I understand speaking to friends in the space. There was also a paper years ago that showed a tweaked model coming up with 20k novel pathogens each deadly to humans in some number of hours

Either way, the biorisk has orders of magnitude more evidence than wild basilisk speculation. Please do not put those in the same category.

Also your evidence-first approach and no concern without evidence falls you into the turkey problem. Imagine being a turkey and being fed each day. Some other x-risk turkey is saying that the situation is suspicious, that the red barn is where some well-fed turkeys have been taken and none return and that this is happening less and food has increased so maybe all of us will go to barn at once soon. You tell the x-risk turkey they have no evidence a lot of turkeys have ever been sent to the barn which shuts them up. Reasoning by induction would get you "we are happy and thriving 99 days so should be good on the 100th" and then you get slaughtered on the 100th.

Consider the importance of first principles approach where you deduce the possibility of events that will happen only once and never again (like human extinction). Nobody with a "show me the historical evidence" approach would have been able to see the industrial revolution coming.

I think the gradual disempowerment thesis here is well argued enough to be considered the default track for what will happen to us: https://gradual-disempowerment.ai/

If you disagree with it, where do you disagree with it?

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#876

The most optimistic outcome of generative AI leaves us with a technology that warps our perception of reality and crushes labor. The most pessimistic destroys all of humanity. Our CEOs not only insist we genuflect before these machines but measure our sacrifice and shame our reluctance.

The optimistic outcome is the machines do the work and people can be freed from drudgery.

That requires abolishing capitalism, and since these AIs are going to hyper-empower the already powerful capitalist ruling class, that utopian outcome seems unfortunately extremely unlikely.

Feeding ever more amazing technology and science into a broken social/political/economic system does not result in a better world unfortunately.

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a hypothetical if someone knew with 100% certainty [...] This is an unreasonable demand. The quitting employee in this case said this: "I am optimistic about the potential for coordination. Warning shots like the Hugging Face attack have made pacing agreements between U.S. labs more viable. I don’t feel like we’re on track to prevent a global race, which may require costly actions such as a temporary ban on…

> This is an unreasonable demand. I'm not making a demand, I'm setting an anchor point from which we can work backward from. Is there any doubt that if someone was 100% certain that Big AI Button was being built and it would kill all humans that said person has a moral obligation to do everything they can to stop the button from being built and pressed? > "You demand that he should kill multiple people rather than qu…

> if someone was 100% certain

This is unreasonable because nobody can know 100% certain that the AI built at Anthropic will kill everyone. It is also a big-ass strawman because the author never claimed he was 100% certain that AI will kill all humans. You're arguing from an irrelevant hypothetical (in which, I might add, most people would still not automatically change into murderous psychopaths as you apparently think is normal).

> Horse Shit. Here's what was written

It's a whole thread, my man. And nowhere does it say "omg I’m quitting they’re going to kill everyone". Read the entire thread again and then say with a straight face that the gist of it is "omg I’m quitting they’re going to kill everyone".

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not advocating for this. You're not advocating for it because murdering people is highly immoral and illegal. That answers your question for the most part. You also have to remember that the magnitude and speed of this stuff is very new to pretty much everybody . It's not exactly trivial to go from "I'm just doing my job" to "I need to kill everybody in my company to save the world" in a year or two, especially…

> You're not advocating for it because it is highly immoral and illegal. That answers your question for the most part. Well truthfully I’m not advocating for it because I don’t have any insight into these labs or the true capability of these models. But as a hypothetical if someone knew with 100% certainty that Big AI Button was being built and it would kill all humans or destroy all of humanity there is no moral amb…

What if you have 10-20% certainty the AI being built will kill everyone? Go on a rampage and land yourself in prison just so Lab B or China can win the arms race and their AI can kill everyone? Probably not. Quit your job? Sure.

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#879
post #517

HN crowed need to make up their minds.. Are LLMs about to be a god that will annihilate humanity? Or are they statistical parrots? Are they proofing or stealing math?

> Are LLMs about to be a god that will annihilate humanity? Or are they statistical parrots? Does a virus need to be a God? Replication and annihilation do not require very much intelligence. They're going to have all the intelligence they need though, to replicate and annihilate as much as they like. We should probably start building some kind of immune system.

What virus?

People are seriously confused what is being created here. The claim here we will have misaligned AGI, not a mindless LLM. If you don't know and you don't agree what you are even creating, how can you defend against it?

If this LLMs are statistical parrots, then the risk is someone using it as a weapon, to hack etc, but that is different risk category that why this person quit his job with different diffence mechanisms.

Re: I resigned from Anthropic today

#880

No other human activity poses this level of danger. I do heed the warnings, but this comes across as detached hyperbole. See: global warming, nuclear weapon development, wealth inequality, war, technology dependence, etc. Also, this has nothing to do with LLMs or computers. Like all things, this is about humans.

> Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war https://www.iaeai.org/tpost/xa4htcma61-statement-on-ai-risk

Signed by many AI researchers with no financial stake in the industry. It comes across as hyperbole because you're not an insider and haven't see what they have seen.

Global warming would as well if you were only learning about it now as a newer thing only some scientists were concerned about. But unlike AI risk, global warming has had decades to settle into the cultural overton window.

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