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Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

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Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#191

Post by FinnKuhn »

bko wrote: post #31
FinnKuhn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US isn't the UK or China and different cultures deem different things as acceptable. The UK for example is also a monarchy, which would rial up people in the US if proposed there. Additionally the trust that the government uses these cameras as intended is apparently higher in the UK than the trust of Americans that Flock will not misuse their surveillance technology.

Doesn't UK arrest a few thousand people a year for social media posts? What are you basing this high degree of trust on?

In the UK overall, 64% of the population support police use of facial recognition technology to some degree and only 11% were opposed to its use [1]. The survey also looks at support for different szenarios, but overall many generally did not oppose it, while in the US 47% oppose the use of flock cameras [2].

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-attitudes-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/florida-bans-highwa...

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#192

Post by jgerrish »

quacked wrote: post #30

I've been very pleased to see the reaction to Flock in the US. I was talking to a younger guy, very normal kid who keeps his nose clean, studying criminal justice in his junior year at college. I jokingly mentioned to him that maybe he could bring some anti-surveillance awareness to whatever law enforcement agency he goes to work for and he said, very seriously, "oh yeah, definitely. I've only gotten two cameras so f…

> I've been very pleased to see the reaction to Flock in the US.

I've been involved in civil liberties for over three decades. I was a member of the EFF and ACLU when I could afford it, and follower of the early cypherpunks. Like a lot of EFF members, I was advocating against the Patriot Act a d the methods used to pass it after 9/11.

But this feels different. The fact that there is large support feom the left behind this makes me very cautious.

The examples of police stalking is another thing that adds up to something fishy.

I'm very glad that dangerous stalking by those with authority and power is being addressed and dealt with. But I have to wonder if the true people with power aren't using this to create laws tailored to them around future citizen surveillance methods.

I had a possible opportunity to work in a really interesting space with wildlife management and sensor networks, including cameras. It would have been a dream, because it was an awesome space to bring educational material to families about the world around them. Interactive embedded sensors and media integration thst let them learn about nature.

I didn't take that position because of healthcare and medical issues. Bit as a kid who grew up exploring science museums, I would have loved to have given back to the community. I am heartbroken for the result.

But with Flock and the crackdown on cameras, the company is also directly in the path of the legislative and public consciousness shift.

I know whatever they build will keep up with their focus on customer safety, humane wildlife management and public safety. But there's now going to be extra focus on protecting the public from employees of the firm. It shifts the narrative.

It takes focus away from just educating the public. But I guess there are other large companies who can do a better job just focusing on education and inspiration.

It makes me sad. I don't expect those new people against Flock to understand. I'm personally happy about the focus on privacy. But it's not just privacy and education now. The early cypherpunk view has been subtly co-opted.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#193

Post by harimau777 »

bko wrote: post #52
sophacles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We care about the immigrants becaus we know the rest of the fucking poem.

I too base my political beliefs on poetry

You do realize that humans use art to communicate difficult or emotional ideas including political beliefs, right?

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#194

Post by sicktriple »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #157
someguyiguess wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private citizens filming in public and police forces setting up arrays of surveillance cameras in public somehow don’t seem equivalent. I’m not a lawyer so I can’t properly articulate what the legal difference is. And if there isn’t one then the law needs change. Clearly the majority of citizens agree with me. Is it legal for US citizens to all put cameras on their cars and set up a network where we can all see where…

The quickest way to get dragnet surveillance banned would be for citizens to collaborate and create a massive publicly-available surveillance network.

Yes. Once the application of force happens outside the state's monopoly, they'll shut that shit down so fast.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#195

Post by ceejayoz »

pmdr wrote: post #176
ceejayoz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you say "I feared for my life", you're apparently also allowed to shoot random civilians if you're a cop. Which is kinda why people are upset enough to set shit on fire.

I was merely hinting at protests being called peaceful by the media when they clearly weren't. Not saying they weren't justifiably so.

They were overwhelmingly so. Millions protested, across the country and even overseas; dozens committed felonies of the sort you describe.

Martin Luther King Jr. was subject to the same bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/agedlikemilk/comments/iia9lq/this_c...

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#197

Post by Avicebron »

JohnFen wrote: post #155
brookst wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you specify this regulation? It’s very hard to regulate outcomes when the component steps are legal. Not saying we shouldn’t try, just saying that path is well-trodden and rarely works. See: media consolidation, etc IMO it is much more practical to regulate and penalize the activity of using such a network than to preempt its creation. Heck, BitTorrent can be seen as a surveillance network. But intent and u…

> How would you specify this regulation? I'd regulate the database side of things. What makes mass surveillance systems such as Flock, Ring, etc., incredibly objectionable isn't really the cameras. It's the databases they feed into that allow for the unprecedented invasion into our daily lives. That's also true for non-camera surveillance systems. The concentration and correlation of individually innocuous informatio…

I agree, I just wonder how it's enforced. Just a ban on any dragnet style surveillance?

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#198

Post by budman1 »

cmiles8 wrote: post #6
bko wrote: post #4

I was surprised to learn that many countries have what amounts to a flock equivalent. UK for instance has a National ANPR Service w 12k fixed cameras and 90-100m plates read a day. They also store it much longer. Never understood why the outrage of flock in particular is so big online. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-anpr-ser...

The UK has been a surveillance state for decades. Heck you can’t even watch television without going on a register and inspectors coming to your door verifying your TV paperwork is in order. Imagine trying that in the US! This sort of thing is just starting more broadly in the US and Americans are not happy about it. It’s the new political hot potato where behind the scenes they’re pressured to support it but publicl…

For the record, the honorable governer of texas, a mr. abbott, pledges his undivided love for the Donald.

And he has publicly denounced Flock cameras and data center development in the past month.

Amazing what polling does to a politician.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#200

Post by HNIsEvil2 »

blitzar wrote: post #108
whilenot-dev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple things can be true at the same time... do you think the seller doesn't want a closely surveilled world with no exits? Besides, money keeps businesses in the economy afloat, it's an artificial good with (more or less) constant value. Money's a systematic means to an end and rarely an end goal, its purpose is the transportation of value, and not the communication of value.

> do you think the seller doesn't want a closely surveilled world with no exits? I don't think they care beyond being rich. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower

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