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Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

cims.nyu.edu

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Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#781

Post by carljungslabtek »

tpkm wrote: post #730
ghshephard wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is a "wake up call" - then your legal team needs immediate education. First - there is this - https://openai.com/policies/how-your-data-is-used-to-improve... (linked from the Navier Stokes writeup) I don't know how much more clearly they can write: > When you use our services for individuals such as ChatGPT, Sora, or Operator, we may use your content to train our models. One of the key selling tactics that co…

The training on user data only applies to free accounts - paid and Enterprise accounts guarantee data is not used for training. Plenty of Enterprises use the APIs directly - that's just plain misinformation

This is not true. They claim not to train by default for business and enterprise agreements, but for plus and pro plans they enable it by default and you can allegedly turn it off (I don’t trust them very much though, I’m sure there is something in the T&C saying they can modify that deal any time)

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#783

Post by timdiggerm »

postalcoder wrote: post #40
mayakacz wrote: post #12

I'm not one to comment often but this really pisses me off. OpenAI looked at user data, stole world class researchers' work, and then tried to threaten those researchers to do what would make their corporation profit (which they would anyways!). Imagine you have been working on a terribly difficult math problem for a decade. This is a result you have spent years on, and what you will likely be remembered for. And to…

I'm stunned that people are taking this accusation as a fact. OpenAI is no stranger to rivalry with Anthropic but 1. it's not like user data is sitting around on some kitchen table somewhere and 2. I consider OpenAI to be as economically motivated as any other actor in this space and playing around with user data like that would destroy their business. There are things that Buckmaster alleged and things that he specu…

> I consider OpenAI to be as economically motivated as any other actor in this space and playing around with user data like that would destroy their business.

It's a gamble that this would be overlooked compared to the reputation they build for solving the thing

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#784

Post by ncr100 »

saidnooneever wrote: post #736
n2d4 wrote: post #83

Drama/accusation summary: - Aug 15th: Tristan Buckmaster & Levent Alpöge make progress on a few important math problems, "finite-time blowup with smooth forcing for incompressible porous media, for Boussinesq, and for 3d incompressible Euler." - they do NOT have a proof for the $1,000,000 Millenium Prize problem. BUT, they do claim to have a proof for a similar (non-Millenium) Navier Stokes problem that could help le…

people are so greedy to have their name on something forgetting a) human progress is shared through its cycle. people build upon eachothers ideas and knowledge. and b) all these models consist of information stolen from others. Who really solved it if all u did was prompt some illegally obtained repository of data..?? Its like saying you won the car race, but you stole the fastest car and had your m8 drive you around…

To build on this, is it correct to say ANY training on data from any individual originating human deserves to be cited and attributed on the solut6paper?

I wonder whether these bickering users (of AI various products) with math degrees are missing the forest for the trees.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#786

Post by edot »

Tanjreeve wrote: post #687
m00x wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a massive discount because you're helping to train the model. If you want to have ZDR, you have to pay API rates. This is well-known to anyone in the industry.

> If you want to have ZDR, you have to pay API rates. That's a pinky swear. Especially as data gets harder to come by I'm curious how long till there's a scandal on that too.

If you don't trust the labs directly, you can always use AWS Bedrock or Azure Foundry which should have a much stronger incentive to not train. They make money from asset rental, not selling models. I'd be shocked if they were training.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#787

Post by whateverboat »

hkmaxpro wrote: post #336
sigbottle wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's specifically the last two bullet poitns - Tristan is suspicious of the timing, as only few others were trying this approach. OpenAI says the model didn't access his user data directly, but leaves unanswered whether Tristan's chat conversations were part of the training. - OpenAI says they would partially credit Tristan for the $1,000,000 discovery (even though Tristan did not solve the $1,000,000 problem) — but…

Both Sam Altman and Sebastien Bubeck admitted they only want Buckmaster to be the lead author on a rewrite of the OpenAI proof. https://x.com/sama/status/2097385167002415140 https://x.com/SebastienBubeck/status/2097379411691516310 A wake up call for using OpenAI models. If you discover something with their model and you work for a competitor, they “felt it would be inappropriate” for you “to author OpenAI’s work”.

> Now that we can see their work, the approaches appear to be different. It is also worth noting that our latest model can solve many, many other math problems.

Is that a threat?

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#788

Post by _zoltan_ »

rochansinha wrote: post #663

People here do not seem to be considering the second-order effects of these series of events. No academic institution or enterprise will trust OpenAI, Anthropic or any other non-local AI model with their core IP. There will be severe restrictions on what employees at these companies/institutions can share with AI services even from their personal accounts. (Or I am just overthinking it)

ZDR is a thing. extremely large companies with a lot of IP rights use GPT/Claude without issues.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#789

Post by baobabKoodaa »

Catloafdev wrote: post #425
hkmaxpro wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Sam Altman and Sebastien Bubeck admitted they only want Buckmaster to be the lead author on a rewrite of the OpenAI proof. https://x.com/sama/status/2097385167002415140 https://x.com/SebastienBubeck/status/2097379411691516310 A wake up call for using OpenAI models. If you discover something with their model and you work for a competitor, they “felt it would be inappropriate” for you “to author OpenAI’s work”.

These responses seem to me to make it abundantly clear who's telling the truth here. I wonder who this fools. It would be extraordinarily easy to simply say, this model was not trained on your work, if that were the case. It's telling that they refuse to acknowledge the root issue here, and are attempting to shift the conversation elsewhere.

> These responses seem to me to make it abundantly clear who's telling the truth here.

Since it is clear to you, can you articulate what it is? I was unable to infer "the truth" from your message.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#790

Post by jere »

tough wrote: post #641
jere wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math, like any other human endeavor, doesn't exist until someone is motivated to invent it. The laws of the universe aren't understood until someone is motivated to discover them. So it might be worthwhile to not completely ignore discussion about incentives.

Both mathematics and the laws of the universe exist way before any understanding kicks in

I tried to word my comment carefully to avoid pedantry, but alas.

I don't think everyone agree with your notion that the language and tools of mathematics aren't human inventions.

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