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Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

newyorker.com

101–110 of 548 posts

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#101
post #7

They want to make money. Their buyers want a closely surveilled world with no exits.

There are buyers who want drugs for recreational reasons, murders for emotional reasons, or spy cams on hotel rooms for business reasons. But those are simply 3 instances where existent demand doesn't mean we should be allowing any offer to exist.

I'd personally agree to put Flock-levels of civil vigilance in the same bag.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#102

Some ways to help think about this: 1. Privacy is not secrecy. Your neighbours know what you are doing, they just politely don’t mention it, or try to sell you something on the back of it. 2. Almost everything we do we do in public, with our face uncovered for the world to see. 3. The benefits of a mass surveilled world are enormous - epidemiology is gonna rock in 20 years. New medical insights as well as simple stuf…

I don’t understand how people are reading this comment and saying “yeah, but…”

The benefits of a mass surveilled world are absolutely not enormous. Like, what the actual fuck?

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#103

Some ways to help think about this: 1. Privacy is not secrecy. Your neighbours know what you are doing, they just politely don’t mention it, or try to sell you something on the back of it. 2. Almost everything we do we do in public, with our face uncovered for the world to see. 3. The benefits of a mass surveilled world are enormous - epidemiology is gonna rock in 20 years. New medical insights as well as simple stuf…

There are a lot of stupid things being said on hackernews these days. This one wins today.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#104
The political left has really decided to go nuclear over Flock, but I'm not understanding the fundamental principle from which this view arises. Libertarian sorts don't like it either -- but that's entirely consistent with their entire existence. Is this a broad-based phenomenon on the left, or are sections perfectly fine with it? Some of the other comments here seem to endorse full on 1984-style surveillance, so perhaps this is just a libertarian-left-leaning Silicon Valley strain of leftism that's in revolt against Flock? While possible I don't traditionally see outfits like New Yorker falling in that category. When the worldview is very permissive of broad state power and often admiring of Europe, which has itself been struggling to fight off legislation weakening encryption, it's hard to make sense of this.

I'd be curious to see if Mamdani or someone similar employing Flock or an equivalent would yield the same firestorm; if not, then it's not a principled stand against surveillance, rather just another form of political warfare. Perhaps Antifa wants to not be tracked in certain locales, is less concerned in other politically favorable locales because they know they won't be prosecuted anyway?

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#105
post #26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Flock is privately owned while ANPR seems to my cursory research to be government owned. And we all know what private corporations do to peoples data.

I'm not sure about your exp w government agencies, but in my experience, I much prefer private companies. Much easier to hold to account. Just as an example, NYC mayor is going after landlords for violations and tenant rights. He has hearings regularly. However there is no enforcement of the law when it comes to government owned housing projects, which are very often not kept up to code and are outright dangerously m…

Does the city have exclusive jurisdiction over those projects? Honest question, not familiar with NYC government housing. Some places have county, state, or federal preemption.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#106
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China, which is a country with very little street crime, grafitti, vandalism etc And very little ability for anyone or any group of people from any walk of life to resist getting screwed by the government if the government chooses to screw them. The long term cost of putting locks on doors and bars on windows and all the other things that need to be done to deter small scale crime is peanuts compared to the cost of…

> And very little ability for anyone or any group of people from any walk of life to resist getting screwed by the government if the government chooses to screw them. There isn’t, and has never been, a nation in human history where regular people have meaningful recourse against random targeting by the government. This is as true in Sweden as it is in China. The best you can hope for is that a court eventually rules…

[deleted]

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#107
post #38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never thought of UK as a police state. How about Netherlands w a similar program? Non watchlist plates are kept for 28 days compared to most flock implementations that keep for 7 https://www.politie.nl/informatie/waar-staan-anpr-cameras.ht...

The funny thing is that countries commonly called “police states” aren’t, while countries not thought of as such are. Most Western countries have 2-3 times as many police officers per capita as China and Russia. Many people in China have had not a single encounter with authorities in their lifetime (other than basic administrative tasks). Meanwhile, in some EU countries, you need government approval to add a roof win…

Western countries are richer per capita, they can afford more government per capita.

Higher yields mean more overhead for taxes. More overhead more taxes means more money for the lord. More money for the lord means more men at arm. More men at arms means more ability to shake down the peasants for even more.

It's a self feeding cycle, well until you get out competed by the next country that didn't waste all that overhead trying to enforce a local maximum.

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#108
post #7

They want to make money. Their buyers want a closely surveilled world with no exits.

Multiple things can be true at the same time... do you think the seller doesn't want a closely surveilled world with no exits? Besides, money keeps businesses in the economy afloat, it's an artificial good with (more or less) constant value. Money's a systematic means to an end and rarely an end goal, its purpose is the transportation of value, and not the communication of value.

> do you think the seller doesn't want a closely surveilled world with no exits?

I don't think they care beyond being rich. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#109
As a non american, can someone explain the Flock story from a US perspective (ideally a reasonably centrist one)? .. i keep seeing them in the news here on HN .. apparently ~178 results in the past month . and it seems to get a disproportionate amount of front page coverage

Re: Flock Wants a Closely Surveilled World with No Exit

#110

Some ways to help think about this: 1. Privacy is not secrecy. Your neighbours know what you are doing, they just politely don’t mention it, or try to sell you something on the back of it. 2. Almost everything we do we do in public, with our face uncovered for the world to see. 3. The benefits of a mass surveilled world are enormous - epidemiology is gonna rock in 20 years. New medical insights as well as simple stuf…

> At some basic level treat it like HIPPA or medical data

HIPPA is an extremely very poor model for this sort of thing. It's just this side of worthless in terms of maintaining medical privacy. It's actually very difficult to maintain the privacy of your medical data in the US.

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