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Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

wsj.com

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Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#41

Post by bluGill »

irishcoffee wrote: post #14

I worked on unmanned ground vehicles that did this... 10 years ago. In fact we designed them from scratch. FWIW, now you have all the same joys of engine maintenance that one has with a traditional ICE car: oil changes, oil filter changes, spark plug replacement, starter replacement, coolant, probably an alternator, etc, along with needing to worry about an IG bolted on to the side of the engine connected to an MV bu…

Less maintenance the traditional engine. well assuming you plug it in of course but if you're plugging it in you're only using the edge for longer trips and so you're going to save a lot of money while still having range to make longer trips. Of course there is some worry about the gas going stale if you never run that engine. On the other hand gas engines get more efficient the higher the load and so a generator optimized for the engine gets everything running at optimal is going to get roughly 40% fuel energy efficiency versus a normal car which is going to be close to 20 - that was the main promise of a hybrid all along.

I have a PHEV where the engine has about a thousand hours on it my previous car driven about the same would have had about three thousand hours on it. But there are definitely plenty of reports of people who have the plugging hybrids who never actually plug it in it so don't see this advantage.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#42

Post by actionfromafar »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #28
vincnetas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

somehow it makes you think that running generator to charge battery to drive the wheels is somehow better than just driving wheels directly :) "not your average hybrid whos gas-powered motor directly..."

> running generator to charge battery to drive the wheels is somehow better than just driving wheels directly In some ways it is, yes. The engine design is not the same, it doesn't need gearbox, variable power output etc to charge battery. In some ways it can be more efficient.

The Prius isn't really using a gearbox in the conventional sense either, it's much simpler.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#43

Post by throw8393937 »

bluebarbet wrote: post #37

ITT: a disappointing number of low-effort drive-by comments responding to the headline alone.

Low effort? How about low effort screaming "buy Tesla or you are nazi" around 2016-2019?

Or when we tried to have a civilized discussion about low powered ICE engines, versus 2 ton luxury heavy battery cars?

The green crowd always mainly ran on low effort shit posts with state sponsoring. It is just laws of physics and politics did not really worked out as you imagined!

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#45

Post by Tade0 »

pornel wrote: post #23

Stellantis is still producing 400V EVs with below-average efficiency. Their cars display estimated range based on their marketing number rather than real battery condition and driving history, so the range drops by 1.6 miles for every mile driven. A lot of range anxiety would go away if their EV tech wasn't crap.

Interestingly, brands like Mercedes do the opposite - a recent test by What Car? indicated that the real (UK) highway range of the GLC 400 4Matic Electric is just 1.4% lower than its WLTP rating - 390 miles vs 394.

I don't know about anyone else, but I always needed a short break after 450km or so. Those 390 miles are more than I would ever use without stopping to charge.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#46

Post by derideor »

detourdog wrote: post #27
derideor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove an i3 rex, first generation. The gas motorcycle engine loved breaking down, due to disuse. Such an unreliable offence of crap. According to the dealership mechanic, the engine was packaged in a way that made the fluids collect in places they shouldn't.

I have driven the entire east coast on mine. I have put 60k miles in mine. All trouble free. Best car I have ever owned. If I have time on a trip I charge up and if I don’t I just use gas. That mechanic was pulling your leg.

First generation? According to Wikipedia and the few websites I could find, in American models, the rex had a different control setup that was simpler then here in Germany.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#47

Post by asmnzxklopqw »

Tade0 wrote: post #45
pornel wrote: post #23

Stellantis is still producing 400V EVs with below-average efficiency. Their cars display estimated range based on their marketing number rather than real battery condition and driving history, so the range drops by 1.6 miles for every mile driven. A lot of range anxiety would go away if their EV tech wasn't crap.

Interestingly, brands like Mercedes do the opposite - a recent test by What Car? indicated that the real (UK) highway range of the GLC 400 4Matic Electric is just 1.4% lower than its WLTP rating - 390 miles vs 394. I don't know about anyone else, but I always needed a short break after 450km or so. Those 390 miles are more than I would ever use without stopping to charge.

Those 390 miles are from 100 to empty and you don’t do that in real life.

Usually on long trip stops I charge to 75% because after that it becomes painfully slow to charge the rest of 25. And I rarely stop below 20%, because of, eh, low battery stress.

So in reality I have to stop at half of the advertised range.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#48

Post by irishcoffee »

bluGill wrote: post #41
irishcoffee wrote: post #14

I worked on unmanned ground vehicles that did this... 10 years ago. In fact we designed them from scratch. FWIW, now you have all the same joys of engine maintenance that one has with a traditional ICE car: oil changes, oil filter changes, spark plug replacement, starter replacement, coolant, probably an alternator, etc, along with needing to worry about an IG bolted on to the side of the engine connected to an MV bu…

Less maintenance the traditional engine. well assuming you plug it in of course but if you're plugging it in you're only using the edge for longer trips and so you're going to save a lot of money while still having range to make longer trips. Of course there is some worry about the gas going stale if you never run that engine. On the other hand gas engines get more efficient the higher the load and so a generator opt…

> Less maintenance the traditional engine.

I can tell you from experience it really isn't much less. Stale gas, dry-rotted hoses, dry/cracked seals, failed starter, fried ECU, fried coolant pump. Also account for the entire other subsystem, the IG. A complex subsystem with an entirely different set of warts: shredded splines, cracked coolant lines, corroded LV/MV connectors, leaky coolant lines, fused contactor.

Perhaps the most salient point is how it isn't great for the battery. Your BMS system needs to be amazing to make sure the battery cells charge relatively evenly or you'll start frying cells. Even if it is amazing, you'll probably fry cells.

It works extremely well at adding range to an EV ground vehicle, I saw it work and it was really cool. The amount of headache it added relative to a pure EV vehicle was just incredible.

Edit: to add, a PHEV is only notionally comparable to this system. Your engine probably ran every 2nd-erd time you drove it. If people don't start and run their engine once a month, just like a home generator (and nobody does that) the problems multiply.

I don't wish to argue with you, this was my day job for a long time, spent as much time with a meter as I did writing software on that program, it was really fun. The reliability was pretty meh.

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#49

Post by detourdog »

derideor wrote: post #46
detourdog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have driven the entire east coast on mine. I have put 60k miles in mine. All trouble free. Best car I have ever owned. If I have time on a trip I charge up and if I don’t I just use gas. That mechanic was pulling your leg.

First generation? According to Wikipedia and the few websites I could find, in American models, the rex had a different control setup that was simpler then here in Germany.

2018

Re: Carmakers Have a New Idea to Boost EV Range: Add a Gas Engine

#50

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

Diesel-generated electrical propulsion in ships have been a thing for a long time. You can use several generators and only fire up the ones you need for the power you need and the ones running can do so in or near their optimal efficiency zones. You can also do away with the weight and mechanical losses from gear boxes because the electric motors don't need them.
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