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On Really Trying (2009)

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Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#41

Post by majkinetor »

sph wrote: post #20
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

It's a delicate balance like the Ballmer Peak. Too much or too little problems in childhood and you don't get the incredible drive of these types. With my own 'difficult' childhood all I got was, according to Gabor Maté, a hard time focusing on stuff that I actually care about and a whole load of mediocre attempts.

Yeah, there are even experiments with mices on that - too much protection and you have no stress in life but die first from predators, or too little and you are anxious your entire life but alive.

I guess this is one of those that you can only judge in retrospect, although you can never know for sure.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#42

Post by henryaj »

Kotlopou wrote: post #3

I do remember when hearing about Simón Bolívar's crossing of the Andes ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju7nJjprbQg ) "I wish I had this guy's energy and drive". Some people just seem to be on another level. It kind of would make sense if this was bipolar disorder?

Mania is a hell of a performance enhancer.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#43

Post by jfsebastian »

noduerme wrote: post #35
b3lvedere wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money aside, would you consider yourself being happy?

Dude or lady, I was happiest when I was writing stories behind the wheel of a taxi, eating beans and rice every night and sleeping in the back seat... I'd almost be happier to lose everything I own and go back to that, because owning shit is an albatross, and what makes me happy is figuring things out from scratch and doing it on my own terms. The one thing that no one can take away from me is the love of proving mys…

I can certainly understand your motivation. To be honest, while money is helpful from the start, beyond a certain point it no longer improves your life. I currently support my own family with the money I earn. I’m even able to invest money for my boys so they can get a good education. But millions? These days, I prefer time. It's something which get more worthy every year.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#44

Post by Xmd5a »

noduerme wrote: post #34
bildung wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empirically, the causality you state there is simply wrong, and clearly so. The psychological abuse you have suffered usually at least leads to anxious attachment, i.e. the inability to form healthy bonds with other people, as well as higher probability of social anxiety, depression and suicidality. You've just fallen victim to survivorship bias here - if you were one of the kids that got broken more severly by their…

Maybe I'm speaking from "survivor bias", but I'm bit offended by your clinically framed attempt to pathologize my upbringing here. I never said that we weren't loved or that basic affection was withheld. We were expected to do beyond what we thought was our best, or else we would be disappointments to our parents. Would they still love us? Sure. Kick us out...? Not unless our responses involved gross insubordination.…

> your clinically framed attempt to pathologize my upbringing here.

Don't bring your dog collars around then

> as one would in a court of law.

such as this loud symptom, if you don't want the shame of it to outlive you. It's what you're looking for in fact. Your highly disagreeable post, followed by the very reasonable replies you wrote to the reactions it caused, is a hint you're still looking for that kind of stimulation. It's a form of self-punishment.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#45

Post by Thedarkb »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

I grew up in an environment where I had high expectations placed on me with a father who was mortally disappointed when I failed to meet them, but the reality was that, even when I gave my all, I still couldn't be what my father expected me to be because I had undiagnosed ADHD which has obvious implications for educational performance which was complicated by the fact I had undiagnosed (until a teacher picked up on it when I was 15 and referred me) dyspraxia and was physically incapable of writing fast enough to finish exam papers in time. I was permanently stressed from roughly the age of 7 until I left home at 20 and it did enough damage that I had to be referred from the ordinary mental health service to a specialist at the beginning of the year. Your tone is very similar to that of my father, and I'm sure for many kids this parenting style is productive, but if you think this kind of treatment isn't equally capable of producing generational trauma as physical violence, you're lying to yourself. I hope for their sake that your children never find themselves in a position where they can't meet your expectations.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#46

Post by keiferski »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

It kind of depends on your definition on high-performing people. The definition you seem to be operating by might work for the sort of the lone, cantankerous academic genius, someone who’s work is largely dependent on their ability to focus, study, and have certain output. I imagine a lot of people on HN have this definition of success.

But if your definition of success is remotely related to any form of leadership, then your suggestions are extremely flawed. To be a good leader, you need to manage people, have empathy, sympathy, tact, charisma, and so on.

Adding to that - many things in the real world end up being a mix of both, which means you need both to get to the top. Tom Brady or Michael Jordan don’t become the best in the world by being assholes to their teammates. Significant political / activist figures don’t start movements by belittling people. And so on.

Which means that the attitude you’re displaying here really kind of locks you into the upper middle class overachiever definition of success as a doctor, lawyer, etc. and not into the class of the truly successful.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#47

Post by temp0826 »

zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I've worked at an ayahuasca retreat center the last few years and have worked with several of what I'd consider very successful people. What I've noticed is that there are a couple types- those who are successful despite their traumas and those who are successful because of their traumas. The people I've seen successful because of their traumas tend to have difficulty making real progress (which sometimes comes off has actually having wonderful experiences...possibly all projections or other forms of dissociation/resistance). I think with them there is a subconscious fear that if they heal, they will lose the drive that made them "successful". It's a tough pill to swallow. (The other camp tends to do really well, continues to be successful with even more appreciation and compassion, despite difficult experiences if they decide to face their traumas).

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#49

Post by functionmouse »

zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

cults always utilize this kind of fanservice for initiation

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#50

Post by alexpotato »

Two quotes I love about this:

"I was in the top 100 in tennis. Then I asked myself: 'what if I started training like Andy (Roddick). So I did and next thing I know I'm in the top 8 in the world"

- Mardy Fish [0]

"Kobe told me if I made a 1,000 shots every practice then I would be an All Star. So I started doing that and then became an All Star"

- Dwight Howard [1]

0 - https://www.netflix.com/title/81026434

1 - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/j1hjb5/charania_dwight...

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