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On Really Trying (2009)

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Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#11

Post by BlobberSnobber »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

That's a lot of inefficiency being displayed by such a high-pressure, high-performance, individual. You could've just written "my childhood fucking sucked and I obviously developed some issues, but I justify it as it being good, since I have achieved some level of success, as defined by the circles I dwell in". Also, wasting time commenting on a social platform? Disappointing.

Edit: clicked the profile, it's just a troll, lol. Joke's on me.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#12

Post by noduerme »

DonHopkins wrote: post #2

>Claude Shannon once told me that as a kid, he remembered being stuck on a jigsaw puzzle. His brother, who was passing by, said to him: “You know: I could tell you something.” >That’s all his brother said. >Yet that was enough hint to help Claude solve the puzzle. The great thing about this hint… is that you can always give it to yourself. When I've been stuck on a problem that I know there's a solution to, sometimes…

Your view of God is internally consistent. It's exactly why I refuse to believe in God. He can be an asdhole and a bully, but as long as I don't believe in Him, I've maintained my consistency. You could just as easily go the other way on that, but if I did acknowledge God then I'd have to do whatever my religion told me God wanted every day. And I'm not about to do that for some entity that's left the world in this state. However, it would be highly hypocritical to yo acknowledge God and at the same time not to follow some of those rules. As long as I don't acknowledge He exists, the agreement is I'm not a hypocrite and He can be an asshole.

My trick to solving those things, by the way, is to talk to myself out loud until I fall asleep, then have a metaphorical dream that I have to analyze, and then the answer is suddenly clear. I never doubt that I will get to the answer, but it can take days or weeks... you have to trust that your mind will get there.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#13

Post by noduerme »

BlobberSnobber wrote: post #11
noduerme wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

That's a lot of inefficiency being displayed by such a high-pressure, high-performance, individual. You could've just written "my childhood fucking sucked and I obviously developed some issues, but I justify it as it being good, since I have achieved some level of success, as defined by the circles I dwell in". Also, wasting time commenting on a social platform? Disappointing. Edit: clicked the profile, it's just a t…

heh. Well, I do comment here when I just finished a project and I'm up late drinking.

My childhood didn't suck at all. That's really a misinterpretation. Here's an example.

When I was 5 years old, my parents took me on the Concorde from New York to London. I remember the trip very well and learning what the Mach sign at the front of the cabin meant. The flight attendants gave me some neat models and stuff that I still have 40 years later.

A member of the British Parliament was sitting in the row behind us. Toward the end of the flight, he spoke to my father and said that he'd been worried about sitting in a row behind a child, but that he'd been listening to our conversation for two hours and had to comment on how much we'd talked about and how well I'd behaved.

Children do live up to your expectations of them, and you can talk to them as adults. None of this makes a childhood suck.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#14

Post by n4r9 »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

> have high expectations of them and are gravely, mortally disappointed if they let us down

That sounds like a recipe for long-term psychological complexes. I know plenty of high-achievers that don't constantly feel like they have to prove themselves. And I wish I didn't have to work so hard to challenge that feeling in myself.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#15

Post by OtherShrezzing »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

>So we're all lawyers, doctors and engineers,

I'd assume from the rest of your post that you'd all become olympians, astronauts, high ranked politicians, or founders of mega-corps. These are all fairly run-of-the-mill careers your family entered into, and plenty of people (I'd guess close to 100%) enter these roles without the type of abuse you suffered.

Hopefully the mortal disappointment you project onto your kids is a little lighter than that your parents projected onto you.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#16

Post by noduerme »

n4r9 wrote: post #14
noduerme wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

> have high expectations of them and are gravely, mortally disappointed if they let us down That sounds like a recipe for long-term psychological complexes. I know plenty of high-achievers that don't constantly feel like they have to prove themselves. And I wish I didn't have to work so hard to challenge that feeling in myself.

I don't know any high achievers who don't feel they have to prove themselves, so maybe I'm in the wrong cirles. It absolutely is a recipe for all kinds of long term complexes. But when you do work hard and you are satisfied with yourself, that satisfaction comes from something greater than yourself. Having no goal is worse than having an artificial one... and achieving something to make your dead parents happy is better than achieving nothing at all.

The measure of whether it was done in the proper proportion, I think, is whether you find later in life that it was, on balance, a service to you.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#17

Post by noduerme »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #15
noduerme wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

>So we're all lawyers, doctors and engineers, I'd assume from the rest of your post that you'd all become olympians, astronauts, high ranked politicians, or founders of mega-corps. These are all fairly run-of-the-mill careers your family entered into, and plenty of people (I'd guess close to 100%) enter these roles without the type of abuse you suffered. Hopefully the mortal disappointment you project onto your kids…

Why?

When I was a teenager I really thought their demands were unfair.

When I was a dropout and a taxi driver in my 20s, I blamed my parents.

When I became a millionaire based on finding something I loved and doing it very well, even though they disapproved and didn't support me in it, I finally was able to thank them for giving me the intellectual tools to do that for myself.

And interestingly, unexpectedly, they finally respected my choices as well.

Life without a struggle is meaningless.

My brothers, worth noting, are far far more interesting and successful than I am... I'm still a dropout loser to them. Megacorps and politics are their games.

Our father had a thing about no television and only books. We had to read 50 pages a night of a book he chose, after school, and report to him what we had read. Every night. No video games either, and computers only if you were writing your own code.

My eldest brother was severely dyslexic. He had a very hard time reading 50 pages a night. He found all kinds of ways to fake it. He makes $20 million a year now, give or take, as a senior law partner, still faking it. Tell me that ain't a good story.

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#18

Post by bgilroy26 »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

Once you've made it this far, the new spectrum everyone is measured on is their magnanimity.

It's okay that you didn't turn out to be that magnanimous, but don't lie to yourself and pretend that you tried as hard as you could

You had more in your humanity tank than you knew you had

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#19

Post by jl6 »

noduerme wrote: post #9
zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

I'm from a family that believed strongly in what some might call "useful child abuse", but that doesn't imply any actual abuse as it would have been defined even 20 years ago, and it isn't without love. Every one of my brothers will admit that our parents loved us deeply, but that our upbringing was extremely stringent and intellectually rigorous, with seemingly unjust punishments for poor grades or for words spoken…

So where did it all go wrong, to end up with you posting comments like this?

Re: On Really Trying (2009)

#20

Post by sph »

zshn wrote: post #8

Strangely reading about high achievers having had a difficult childhood and how it might have actually "enabled" them to achieve what they did, is soothing in a way. It's nice to think of your own scars as a thing that helps you sometimes instead of only a burden.

It's a delicate balance like the Ballmer Peak. Too much or too little problems in childhood and you don't get the incredible drive of these types.

With my own 'difficult' childhood all I got was, according to Gabor Maté, a hard time focusing on stuff that I actually care about and a whole load of mediocre attempts.

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