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The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

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Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#151

Post by amanaplanacanal »

pessimizer wrote: post #46
dyauspitr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anything assimilates religions better than Hinduism. New belief system? Just throw in a new avatar of Vishnu to legitimize it and carry on.

That's because there's not really a there there when it comes to Hinduism. It's a nationalism disguised as a religion (by eating every local religion.)

Sound similar to other religions. You have a set of scriptures, traditions, and mythologies, that get interpreted by each individual believer. Christianity is pretty much the same.

We also have Christian nationalists in the US, for a more politically active flavor.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#152

Post by amanaplanacanal »

geoduck14 wrote: post #146
asdff wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it all comes down to an expectation of some altruism. Yes you may vilify the out group but are the basic dynamics of helping your fellow person out really so different across space and time? I don't think so. Every culture has villages and relies upon others for mutual benefits. That is what I am talking about with this sort of universal baseline level of morality. Yes there could be a spectrum of acceptable crue…

>Yes you may vilify the out group but are the basic dynamics of helping your fellow person out really so different across space and time? I believe that the bible teaches the purpose of life is to glorify the God of the universe. If a religion's "purpose of life" is about "interacting with other humans, and not about God" then we have opposing "purposes". I saw something similar about Secular Humanists: they claimed…

The Bible teaches a lot of different things. It's not one message, as much as people want it to be.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#153

Post by BirAdam »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #51
phyzix5761 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its called syncretism. The Greeks and Romans have been doing it since the time of Alexander the Great.

It's more cultural colonization than syncretism. For example, America was culturally colonized by forcibly converting its inhabitants to Catholicism. Their temples were destroyed, the stones used to build churches, and while celebrations were still observed, the deities were replaced with Catholic ones. Even the folklore was rewritten with Catholic characters. It wasn't syncretism, it was systematic eradication. Sync…

If by “America” you mean Meso and South America, sure. The USA, however, was Protestant, not Catholic.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#154

Post by BirAdam »

Guestmodinfo wrote: post #60
amelius wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get your facts correct. Would you call them "facts"?

Christ and Christianity is well documented in all the kingdoms where it was persecuted and then the subsequent kingdoms had record of those records because one thing about kingdoms is that they don't throw away previous king's records because land records and administrative decrees are stored. Also Christians and Buddhist religions have the tradition of holding conferences that are well documented and happen after ev…

Buddhists and Catholics also hold interfaith dialogues.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#155

Post by tracerbulletx »

BirAdam wrote: post #153
ASalazarMX wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more cultural colonization than syncretism. For example, America was culturally colonized by forcibly converting its inhabitants to Catholicism. Their temples were destroyed, the stones used to build churches, and while celebrations were still observed, the deities were replaced with Catholic ones. Even the folklore was rewritten with Catholic characters. It wasn't syncretism, it was systematic eradication. Sync…

If by “America” you mean Meso and South America, sure. The USA, however, was Protestant, not Catholic.

The Spanish were colonizing the land that is now the United States for 100 years before the English even got here and the french were colonizing it for 100 years before the Louisiana purchase. The catholic church/Jesuits also ran a lot of the infamous indian boarding schools of the 1800s and early to mid 1900s though not exclusively.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#156

Post by dyauspitr »

notahacker wrote: post #114
kshri24 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just throw in a new avatar of Vishnu to legitimize it and carry on. Except for it's never done. No Hindu believes Allah or Jesus is an Avatar of Vishnu. It can't be. Vishnu literally means the "All-Pervading One". Allah is explicitly not Omnipresent. Jesus is Omnipresent but does not have infinite forms. So neither fit the bill. Even Buddha, who we Hindus associate as one of the Avatars of Vishnu is not the same Bu…

I distinctly remember an Indian man on a bus in Kerala striking up a conversation with me (random white obvious tourist) in which he proclaimed both that he considered Jesus his Lord and Saviour and that he considered him to be an avatar of Vishnu. Not an explanation I'd asked him for, but certainly made a change from the standard bus conversation about where I was from and was I married yet and what salary... I'm su…

> certainly made a change from the standard bus conversation about where I was from and was I married yet and what salary...

This man has definitely been to Kerala.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#157

Post by _--__--__ »

BirAdam wrote: post #153
ASalazarMX wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more cultural colonization than syncretism. For example, America was culturally colonized by forcibly converting its inhabitants to Catholicism. Their temples were destroyed, the stones used to build churches, and while celebrations were still observed, the deities were replaced with Catholic ones. Even the folklore was rewritten with Catholic characters. It wasn't syncretism, it was systematic eradication. Sync…

If by “America” you mean Meso and South America, sure. The USA, however, was Protestant, not Catholic.

Generally true, but it is quite funny that by pure chance Squanto was a baptized Catholic.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#158

Post by WorkerBee28474 »

u1hcw9nx wrote: post #79
swat535 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note as another Catholic: Saints Josaphat and Barlaam never had an official decree of canonization. That process didn't exist (in its earliest form) until 1170 AD. Saints before that were generally just acclaimed by the Christians in the area and probably recognized by a local bishop. The Vatican does keep a "Roman Martyrology" by which they try to keep a list of all known saints, but the saints that existed bef…

Catholics surely put great effort into bureaucracy and organization. "The devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, 'What did that man pick up?' 'He picked up a piece of Truth,' said the devil.'That is a very bad business for you, then,' said his fr…

> Catholics surely put great effort into bureaucracy and organization.

My (completely unfounded) theory is that monasteries have historically been the refuge of those with autism and their comorbidities.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#159

Post by jact »

asdff wrote: post #132
jact wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not true that Christian practices are mostly pagan in origin. You do not need to look far to find the origin of the vast majority of what you would have seen in a medieval church service. You can see the common origin if you compare and contrast an Orthodox Jewish synagogue service with an Orthodox Christian liturgy. The first half of the Divine Liturgy and the synagogue service are virtually the same even in t…

I'd call judaisim pagan too as it was originally polytheistic little different than the rest of middle eastern paganism, until it became a cult of yahweh that rejected the rest of the proto canaanite pantheon. So that tracks with my interpretation of "nothing new in christianity" really.

If second-temple era Jews are “pagan” then the term “pagan” has been expanded such as to denude it of all meaning, even if we assume this evolutionary view of Jewish religion, which is actually a very questionable view.

There are plenty of unique Christian traditions too that didn’t come from surrounding culture. The veneration of relics and body parts of saints in particular was considered grossly alien and offensive to the pagans of the time. It was deeply countercultural to have such veneration for pieces of a dead body and to go so far as to build your places of worship around them, to kiss them, etc. And as far as we know the Christians didn’t get this idea from contact with anyone else, they came up with it themselves. It’s deeply myopic to treat ancient people as devoid of creativity or agency.

Re: The two Christian saints who are the Buddha

#160

Post by jhbadger »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #92
asdff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically how christians have always operated since they first emerged and started doing the same throughout the hellenic world. Most (all?) christian traditions are pagan in origin. The main goal was not necessarily replacement but a sort of corporate ownership takeover of the littany of existing traditions, such that these cultures might be ingrained into a unified fold of christian power/influence/customs/laws/exp…

> Tell a devout old world European catholic about say Day of the Dead traditions and they will probably think its blasphemy. Want to make a Catholic mad? Tell them saints are just minor gods of the Christian pantheon.

Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic and who wanted his religion in LOTR to not contradict his own, literally had minor gods (the Valar). He squared that with his Catholicism because he had them subordinate to Ilúvatar (God), much like how saints and angels are.
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