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My Feed, My Way

pm.gov.au

151–160 of 165 posts

Re: My Feed, My Way

#151
What about the option for a chronological feed for _all_ users regardless of age

The state AGs' settlement with Meta requires the company to provide users under a certain age with an option to choose a chronological feed

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41...

Social media companies cannot claim it is more work to provide this option unless they can prove their time-wasting algorithms require less CPU and memory than standard UNIX logging or sort

The information these companies publish does not even belong to them

They rearrange it in manipulative ways that waste everyone's time, or worse (measurable harm)

Re: My Feed, My Way

#152

The damage is already done for most people who already use it. Whenever I go to a restaurant and see friends, families, and couples together, I feel sad that instead of talking to each other, they’re all watching TikToks or reels. On a bus or train, barely one or two people are actually doing something other than watching something online. At least, hopefully, this rule helps future generations. People’s brains are s…

> instead of talking to each other, they’re all watching TikToks or reels.

There's only so much to talk about, and if they're doing that, they've probably already said all there is to say. I'm glad we have something to do now besides make awkward trivial banter or sit in awkward silence.

Re: My Feed, My Way

#153
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it's not a perfect system, but better. Look at the alcohol market in the U.S. Or even the tightly controlled Systembolaget [0] in Sweden, compared to the modern markets for cannabis and cocaine. Tax and regulate lowers violence and increases tax revenue, outright prohibition/making it illegal increases violence and lowers tax revenue. I do believe "sin prohibition" policies, for not just drugs but gambling, prost…

I don't think it's at all obvious that a regulation-based approach could produce better outcomes than a prohibition-based approach. No doubt prohibition causes much violence and misery, but prohibition was a response to other great harms, most famously the condition of opium addicts. Rather than rehash the arguments for and against, I would ask a meta-question: if the matter really were so clear, then why, over the l…

> if the matter really were so clear, then why, over the last ~200 years, did every country introduce a prohibition-based stance, and why has no country switched to tax-and-regulate?

First off, you do have countries switching over to tax-and-regulate, Canada, for example, some U.S. states, countries in Europe (Germany, Netherlands).

But to answer the question of countries going to prohibition-based instead of tax-and-regulate - off the top of my head

1) US-led world order + US deciding to ban a bunch of drugs for political reasons (I hear, from multiple sources that discriminating against Mexican immigrants was one reason cannabis was outlawed, Reagan and his whole 'War on Drugs' schtick...)

2) tradition - have you noticed that, also for the last ~200 years, basically all world leaders, from French presidents to the Emperor of Japan, will dress in the style of the English monarch George IV (and, more precisely, in the the style George IV copied from Beau Brummell)?

We ban drugs because that's what we're used to doing. Our leaders dress in suits because that's what we expect them to do.

3) naive ignorance - much as how, for hundreds if not thousands of years, "sacrifice a bull" was considered the state of the art in ensuring that there would be water for the crops, people growing up with no additional knowledge will often arrive at "ban it" as a logical way to handle a social ill, even if, as those who have suffered the negative consequences [0][1] know, "ban it" generally just makes the problem worse.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuevo_Laredo

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_drug_war

Source [1] notes "Analysts estimate wholesale earnings from illicit drug sales range from $13.6 to $49.4 billion annually".

Not the illicit part. The market is there, even if outlawed. Dozens of billion of dollars per year, and if you tax-and-regulate, all of a sudden you've got billions in tax revenue to help you "respond to social harms, such as the condition of opium addicts".

Re: My Feed, My Way

#154
post #96

> Just as we have basic safety standards for cars, toys or food, the duty of care applies basic standards for the online products we use every day. Aussie here. Great to see this. I don't think this goes far enough: I'd like to see addictive algorithms, content, and doomscrolling banned entirely. Not an option to see a different feed. Illegal. It's manipulative, hurts people, hurts children: make it illegal.

Please don't start randomly prohibiting things because you dis-approve of those things. We have, at this point, over a 100 years of evidence showing that prohibition of psychoactive substances (alcohol, cannabis, cocaine, etc) doesn't actually do much to reduce consumption but do create an immense amount of suffering not just for anyone participating in the trade or consumption of those substances, but also anyone re…

Why does "there's lots of evidence that shows this is harmful" get reduced to "You don't like it?"

I'm not taking a stance here. I'm just noticing the rhetorical move you made. There is lots of evidence that some of those things are harmful. Cocaine, gambling, and alcohol have all destroyed many lives.

I'm not in favor of banning those things, or banning social media for that matter.

It is intellectually dishonest to reduce the arguments for those things to "oh you just don't like them."

Re: My Feed, My Way

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

things that directly harm other taxpayers - murder, physical violence, theft, false slander/reputational attacks... prohibiting things that harm the individual should not be the role of government, IMO. Government, in the liberal/Enlightenment tradition, is there as a protector of your 'rights' to life, liberty, and property. While it has a duty to protect you from things which could harm you (eg junk food/sugary dri…

My point (I'm the one you originally replied to) is that the effects of negative social media are on par with these things. Political violence, violence against minorities and specific genders, and worse. "Even" hurting the way children grow up and think should not be controversial to ban for children. Part of society's function is to protect kids as they grow. I don't think likening it to Coca Cola, or even alcohol,…

Thanks for your reply ^^

> the effects of negative social media are on par with these things. Political violence, violence against minorities and specific genders, and worse.

I hate to break it to you, "humans hurting each other over tribal distinctions" is not new. Look at literally all of world history. If you want a very well-documented example, look at the treatment of the descendants of former slaves in the southern United States 1865-1965. People don't need social media to start lynching each other.

> "Even" hurting the way children grow up and think should not be controversial to ban for children. Part of society's function is to protect kids as they grow.

Yes. Tax and regulate doesn't imply "unrestricted access".

Children are already 'protected by society' from alcohol, cigarettes, pornography, and a host of other things, I'm totally okay with Instagram/Reddit/et al. being "18+" as well. But there's a difference between "18+" and "illegal".

> I don't think likening it to Coca Cola, or even alcohol, is the same at all. And I did not ask to ban social media. I asked to ban harmful expressions of social media.

That's true, you specifically said "I'd like to see addictive algorithms, content, and doomscrolling banned entirely"

but I feel like that definition basically bans all popular social media: 'addictive algorithms, content and doomscrolling' would describe basically the business model of all major ad-supported social media sites (Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, TikTok). Basically the entire 'web 2.0' business model is "have users create content, push the stuff that keeps people staring at the site the longest as much as possible so we can sell more ads".

And I don't believe that a blanket ban on Facebook/YouTube/et al. would be a net improvement.

Re: My Feed, My Way

#157

> Just as we have basic safety standards for cars, toys or food, the duty of care applies basic standards for the online products we use every day. Aussie here. Great to see this. I don't think this goes far enough: I'd like to see addictive algorithms, content, and doomscrolling banned entirely. Not an option to see a different feed. Illegal. It's manipulative, hurts people, hurts children: make it illegal.

Also Australian, and I think there's something worth doing in this space, but I don't know how effective this Albo plan will be. Maybe there's an angle whereby an algorithmic sort (other than chronological, alphabetical, etc) loses liability protection somehow so the media companies are discouraged.

On Instagram, I can opt-out of "suggested content" but it reverts every 30 days or so. I would vastly prefer the default be that I have to opt-in every 30 days...

Re: My Feed, My Way

#158
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone measured that if a user is teenager boy, it will take Tik Tok 9 minutest to serve misogynistic content...

The thing that doesn't get written about is that precisely the same situation occurs for women. Decentering men is equivalent to MGTOW. The torrent of misandrist content on social media utterly dwarfs the amount of 'red pill' / manosphere or similar content. It's mainstream in a way outright misogynistic content hasn't been for decades. Worse still, it's almost impossible to have this discussion without the immediate…

If you're as baffled as I am, FLINTA is apparently a German acronym meaning anyone who's not a born and current man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLINTA*

Re: My Feed, My Way

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point (I'm the one you originally replied to) is that the effects of negative social media are on par with these things. Political violence, violence against minorities and specific genders, and worse. "Even" hurting the way children grow up and think should not be controversial to ban for children. Part of society's function is to protect kids as they grow. I don't think likening it to Coca Cola, or even alcohol,…

Thanks for your reply ^^ > the effects of negative social media are on par with these things. Political violence, violence against minorities and specific genders, and worse. I hate to break it to you, "humans hurting each other over tribal distinctions" is not new. Look at literally all of world history. If you want a very well-documented example, look at the treatment of the descendants of former slaves in the sout…

Good points :) I think you and I likely largely agree, I just expressed myself poorly.

> I hate to break it to you, "humans hurting each other over tribal distinctions" is not new.

I know! But I have a hope in society, in our improvement as a species, that war and conflict grows less and less common. And I believe that should be a social aim.

> But there's a difference between "18+" and "illegal".

Right. Yes, I think I'd support 18+, but even for adults require the companies don't use addictive algorithms. That may seem inconsistent, but the reason is, gambling already exists. Addictive social media algorithms are new. It is much easier to prevent something new, than to deal with something millennia old. And I genuinely think wiser - that is, act to prevent it before it becomes something like gambling and alcohol.

> but I feel like that definition basically bans all popular social media

Yeah. It kinda does. But social media didn't require this in the past: it's developed it. So I feel it bans negative forms, not social media per se. But that said...

> And I don't believe that a blanket ban on Facebook/YouTube/et al. would be a net improvement.

This is a really interesting comment! Why? (Not saying I disagree, for Youtube at least. But I'm really curious about this.)

Re: My Feed, My Way

#160

I reckon a good idea would be to force Bluesky levels of feed customization, with a choice of blocklists. Theres alot of stuff turning up in my feeds lately that i'd rather not see.

What is the problem to filter your feed without Bluesky?
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