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On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

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Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#41

Is this the one that was allegedly based on someone else's actual work & prompts? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605915 https://bsky.app/profile/quantian.bsky.social/post/3muyhwbcd... https://cims.nyu.edu/~tristanb/statement.pdf

Yes, that was the allegation last night.

I work at OpenAI, though not on the team that did this, and my understanding is:

- we decided to ask our model for Millenium problem solutions because of two reasons: (a) our new model was looking incredibly good and (b) we heard rumors that some Millenium problems had been solved and were curious if our models could solve them (the goal here was not to scoop any particular individuals and we were looking at many problems beyond these)

- we did not read any private chats (but of course the model was aware of prior research literature published to the internet)

- the proof generated by our model was very different from theirs and also goes far beyond the published literature

- we made an effort to jointly announce rather than immediately scoop (I understand Tristan was unhappy with the conversations; I know zero details here and I hope more is shared today)

Edit: Here's is Sebastian's take: https://x.com/SebastienBubeck/status/2097379411691516310?s=2...

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#42

Elsewhere in the thread, others have calculated $15mm at API rates for just the output token. (So I’ll assume this cost about that much, taking input and human researcher time.) I wonder whether a team of 60 mathematicians working solely on this for a year would have cracked this. (Assuming $250k total compensation.)

Probably not. It's a millennium prize problem, a great many mathematicians have been working on it for a very long time.

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#43
post #9

Is this the one that was allegedly based on someone else's actual work & prompts? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605915 https://bsky.app/profile/quantian.bsky.social/post/3muyhwbcd... https://cims.nyu.edu/~tristanb/statement.pdf

That is addressed in the article.

OpenAI's position:

> We (the researchers and the agents) did not see any of their work through any means until they released it publicly — in particular, no specific user data was accessed in order to solve this problem. While unlikely, we cannot rule out that de-identified data derived from their usage of our products helped improve our models . However, our proofs differ significantly and even the precise results proved are different in the Euler case (forced vs unforced).

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#44
post #21

I don't know about you guys, but I'm hyped about the future. Cure all illnesses Utopia or Robot Wars Dystopia, both are pretty exciting.

Prompt: cure all cancers and make sure to pretty please not to kill all humans, make no mistakes (This is the alignment problem of course)

Hey seems easy enough

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#45
> While unlikely, we cannot rule out that de-identified data derived from their usage of our products helped improve our models .

Once again, I'm no closer to understanding what https://openai.com/policies/how-your-data-is-used-to-improve... actually means.

If I run Codex against a project that includes a private API key, is there a chance a future user of ChatGPT could ask for an API key and get back mine?

I've actually asked someone at OpenAI this question and they said that was the "regurgitation" problem and is something which they actively work to prevent happening.

That's reassuring, but I want to know more. I still don't have an intuitive understanding of what kind of data I should avoid sharing with a model if I'm worried about that data causing me problems when it's used for future training.

Is it safe for me to brainstorm future directions for my company with a model, or might that risk someone getting that information in response to a prompt like "What potential directions could company X consider in the future?" in six months time?

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#46
post #15

"While unlikely, we cannot rule out that de-identified data derived from their usage of our products helped improve our models." I think they should be able to unravel whether or not any sessions by Tristan or Levent went into the training data for this model.

If they could then it wouldn't be de-identified data...

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#47

the context here is super important, for those who haven't seen it yet. OAI maybe just trained on a real researchers solution and then celebrated having scored the goal unassisted save for the brief commentary at the bottom of this blog post. Here's the other side. https://x.com/rynorhn/status/2097223532438487463

That other researcher was working on a smaller related problem. He was also using LLMs to do it, so either way most of the credit goes to the LLM here.

[dead]

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#48

It seems like some other mathematicians (not affiliated with openAI) have also (or close to) done this. A statement was posted about the surrounding events by one of the them: https://cims.nyu.edu/%7Etristanb/statement.pdf Also Terrence Tao's post: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117233528517340774

I like the 'cat > statement.tex' approach here. These guys dream macros.

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#49

It seems like some other mathematicians (not affiliated with openAI) have also (or close to) done this. A statement was posted about the surrounding events by one of the them: https://cims.nyu.edu/%7Etristanb/statement.pdf Also Terrence Tao's post: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117233528517340774

They do mention that in the "Concurrent Work" section.

    Our effort began on September 1st after hearing a rumor which we later realized was related to Levent Alpöge, an Anthropic employee, and Tristan Buckmaster, a math professor at NYU. After the completion of our full project and Lean verification (on September 6th), believing from the rumor they also had a solution of Navier–Stokes, we reached out to them to offer a concurrent release of our result and to recognize their priority in a joint announcement. At that point we found out that they had a resolution of the forced Euler problem. In these discussions we offered them visibility into all of the prompts we used and later to see the proof. We recognize the priority of their work on forced Euler and congratulate them on their remarkable mathematical achievement.

Re: On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem

#50

It seems like some other mathematicians (not affiliated with openAI) have also (or close to) done this. A statement was posted about the surrounding events by one of the them: https://cims.nyu.edu/%7Etristanb/statement.pdf Also Terrence Tao's post: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117233528517340774

To my understanding, those mathematicians proved a subset of problems, not the Navier-Stokes problem itself. OpenAI used that subproblem in its proof of NS it seems.

The drama comes from where OpenAI got the idea to use that route to tackle NS, since the authors maintain that no one could have plucked it out of thin air like the OpenAI research claim to have done.

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