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There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

weirdgloop.org

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Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#181
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google used to have a deny/block list. But such lists are obviously very advertising unfriendly, since the companies paying for placement and running the most ads are most likely to be blocked.

They have one, it's just centralised and blocks the good sites.

[flagged]

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#182

> Subdomains of existing domains are totally fine Damn, another push to centralizing and walling off user content in 'fandoms', 'reddits' and other closed communities? Have the internet cards been handed out now, and are we in the end-game? Will old domains resell for premiums like low-background-radiation steel?

> Will old domains resell for premiums like low-background-radiation steel? This has been a thing for a long time in domain name resale for speculation or link farming or similar, domains that are aged with "backlinks" sell for more money. https://www.google.com/search?&q=domain+resale+backlinks

Private blog networks is another term in that side of the world. They're explicitly designed to look legit even to a human but give link juice to the spam world (which also look legit to a human). And the HN crowd say "I can spot an AI website a mile away!!!". Well cool, and good for you, but many people cannot. In fact, if you can, they are glad you are so smart and are leaving. Why? Because you wont convert.

The targets in the spam world (email and seo) that want to make money want the low hanging fruit. They want uneducated people to visit the site. I remember when google was still young, these same people wanted visitors from AOL. Why? lower traffic and much higher conversion. What kind of person uses AOL when google is available? An uneducated one and a new one to the internet. Or an older person who is likely to fall for a scheme.

I suspect more and more visitors coming from google will be seen this way in the age of AI and social media searching. Easy targets. Whether it's true or not is debatable (maybe people just want to read a real webpage and have AI burnout). Anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#183

When I still payed Dota, there was a wiki hosted on fandom. The experience was terrible. It wasn't always update-to-date with the latest patch, and on mobile there were so many ads rendering the whole thing unreadable. The catch is that there was a better wiki, called Liquipedia. But Google never showed it first and I kept getting tricked to click that shitty fandom site. (It was years ago. But I just tested it a bit…

When Jimmy Wales launched Fandom, then called Wikia, a shit-ton of (actually encyclopaedic) content about fictional stuff was deleted from Wikipedia to be moved to Fandom, with the excuse that it was a "sister project", that it was the right place for things to be moved, etc.

Fandom was pure corruption even before the tenth round of enshittification.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#184
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a person on the other end it’s not someone who has any link to the company, they’ll be an outsourced service, so all you’d be doing is sending graphic porn to a poorly paid worker. It’s like screaming at a cashier because the supermarket head office made annoying changes to the company.

The cashier still gets paid mind you, if he can put up with it it's the company who is inconvenienced by the slower queue.

I know a fair few people who work in shops, hospitality, and similar. Being a dick to your server is still being a dick to your server, even if you dress it up as doing it to get at their employer.

Occasionally your server deserves a bit of dickish behaviour because of their attitude, but this is relatively rather rare in my experience.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will old domains resell for premiums like low-background-radiation steel? This has been a thing for a long time in domain name resale for speculation or link farming or similar, domains that are aged with "backlinks" sell for more money. https://www.google.com/search?&q=domain+resale+backlinks

Private blog networks is another term in that side of the world. They're explicitly designed to look legit even to a human but give link juice to the spam world (which also look legit to a human). And the HN crowd say "I can spot an AI website a mile away!!!". Well cool, and good for you, but many people cannot. In fact, if you can, they are glad you are so smart and are leaving. Why? Because you wont convert. The ta…

I own a single English language dictionary word .net domain that is a common word related to lawsuits/legal activity and have been offered money to sell it. If I sell it, it will almost certainly become the front page of somebody's CRM lead generator for personal injury lawyers (or a blogspam site driving traffic to same through affiliate links).

People who work in actual infrastructure building tech may not know or have any reason to pay attentino to how many shady "affiliate" networks there are in existence for click traffic.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent years I've thought about making blogs, videos, etc to share knowledge, but the incentive is just no longer there. Even before AI, youtube/web search/etc had plenty of problems, and now they're compounded.

My incentive was merely to catalogue some historical things that were not catalogued elsewhere. Google, Wikipedia etc. LLMs knew only what was on Wikipedia. I don't mind that LLMs will find it....I used a bunch of agents to find sources for them and produce summaries of it, and even to build the site. It took a lot of human research too, but all my notes and snippets were sent to LLMs. I hope this means no more of th…

My goal was to share complex things I've learned through IRL experience, and explain them in detail.

Unfortunately in my case, I can't justify the distilling/production time sink unless there is some kind of monetary incentive. I already donate time to other projects, and there's only so much time in a day.

YMMV

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#187

Some of this might just be problems with the websites themselves. With the Path Of Exile 2 Wiki example, I'm looking at the sitemaps. Once you get through the first sitemap of nested sitemaps (ugh, not a fan of those), the very first actual sitemap returns: XML Parsing Error: no root element found Location: https://www.poe2wiki.net/sitemap/sitemap-poe_wiki-poe2_wiki--NS_0-0.xml Line Number 18040, Column 1 (EDIT: Of c…

Me again! I couldn't figure out why I was getting transient errors on that Poe2wiki sitemap, so I tried looking at other sitemaps on the site. I'm getting transient errors on all of them. Then I realized - the sitemap files are being overwritten in real time. Every edit on the Wiki is causing the sitemap file to be edited in real time. That's why the sitemaps sometimes stop right in the middle of a filename when I ac…

That seems ... unnecessary behavior for even a wiki.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#188

When I still payed Dota, there was a wiki hosted on fandom. The experience was terrible. It wasn't always update-to-date with the latest patch, and on mobile there were so many ads rendering the whole thing unreadable. The catch is that there was a better wiki, called Liquipedia. But Google never showed it first and I kept getting tricked to click that shitty fandom site. (It was years ago. But I just tested it a bit…

For what it's worth Liquipedia is sort of aimed at different people than the fandom wiki. Liquipedia has a very e-sports bend to its content so it may be that the ranks are skewed because the fandom wiki has more general purpose info about the game, lore, etc while Liquipedia has info about teams, matches, events, etc.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#189
post #16

I enjoy the this extension that redirects search results from Fandom and other such terrible hosts to their higher quality indie alternatives. https://github.com/IndieWikiBuddy/indie-wiki-buddy

This is great for users, but it’s terrible for the SEO of those independent wikis as you’re telling Google you want to click on Fandom and Fextra links. /edit It appears this is no longer the case and the extension does things a lot better than it used to!

Indie Wiki Buddy re-orders search engine results to move independent wiki results above Fandom, driving clicks to the independent wiki. And for cases where the independent wiki doesn't show up, the Fandom result is disabled and a separate button is added that links directly to the independent wiki.

Re: There's a new "Google Jail" for independent wikis

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great for users, but it’s terrible for the SEO of those independent wikis as you’re telling Google you want to click on Fandom and Fextra links. /edit It appears this is no longer the case and the extension does things a lot better than it used to!

That might be true for the default config in the extension, but you can also configure the extension to de-emphasize fandom wikis or outright hide them in search results. I don't quite remember the exact default config though.

The default config is good for SEO, which is to re-order search results to put independent wikis above Fandom (driving clicks to the independent wiki), as well as disabling Fandom results + injecting a button to the indie wiki.
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