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The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

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Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#41

Post by sajithdilshan »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #21

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield again…

There is no such thing and European defence. There’s never going to be a scenario where if Germany was ever attacked or invaded, France or UK would send their solders to die protecting Germans and vice versa.

We see that in Ukraine. No other European country would send their soldiers to die in a battle fields to protect Ukrainians

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#42

Post by pbasista »

I assume that these populist, extremist or dictator-willing-to-be politicians, not only in Germany but also in other European countries, in Russia, in the US, in Canada, as well as in China and elsewhere, are now all spending countless AI tokens to perfect their psychological manipulation and brainwashing techniques.

So that they can secure more and more fanatic followers who will vote for them no matter what. And so that they can remain in power for as long as possible.

To them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more.

Because, from what I can see, their only and actual goal is to get in power. No matter the cost. Then abuse it to the benefit of them and their friends. And never ever give it up ever again.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#43

Post by sajithdilshan »

cute_boi wrote: post #40
reeredfdfdf wrote: post #21

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield again…

Liberal party is sacrificing everything just to create a vote bank. They know immigrants will always vote them as Right don't like immigrants.

Irony is that the after naturalisation, the immigrant actually votes for the Right parities. That happened in US as well as in Germany

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#44

Post by balarjin »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #22
martin_bech wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?

That's a trick question though, and it cunningly pre-supposes / takes-for-granted there IS an "immigration problem", and implicitly that "the immigration problem is the root cause of other problems" (as opposed to, "there are real problems, and some people would like you to think they're because of immigration").

Fair enough, it should be asked in a neutral way.

"Voters perceive problems. As is common in a democracy, voters elect people who propose solutions. Why is no other political party proposing solutions voters see as worth voting for?"

If you don't think the problems are real, make the case to the voters.

As far as I can tell, other political parties have no better answer than name-calling. Am I missing some politician/party that is actually making a real argument?

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#45

Post by cyberpunk »

atq2119 wrote: post #38
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

When no political party is willing to address the immigration issue that clearly is forefront on the minds of such AFD voters, what did you expect them to do? Vote CDU? Do we all think that another 8, 10 years of being "firewalled" out of national poltitics and being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) is going to make them less or more extreme? It's hard work making a society tha…

> the immigration issue that clearly is forefront on the minds of such AFD voters, Let's be real: this "issue" is a strawman. It doesn't really exist, especially in that part of Germany. Just like pretty much everywhere else, the German anti-immigrant far right is strongest in the areas with the fewest immigrants. This is not to say that the wave of immigration that is now more than 10 years past didn't have its chal…

Pretty much. It's not a fun time being a brown person in Chemnitz.

I'm pretty convinced at this point there's almost nothing we can do about it.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#46

Post by lelanthran »

LarryDarrell wrote: post #7

When economic reforms are off the table, and austerity has run out of things to be austere about... yeah, anti-immigrant political parties are going to feast. Here in the US, there's a dumber revival of the Red Scare. The scare mongering isn't as effective this go round because there's no existing abundance for the people. All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare th…

> All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare that won't bankrupt you.

Right. I want to see the Democrats campaigning on those things. Midterm is near, they should be getting their We-Wont-Let-AI-Take-Your-Jobs campaign in motion.

> But there's no solution to any of those problems that don't involve some class of investors losing money/power. So we're stuck with MAGA.

You got MAGA because the Dems specifically went the diversity route, instead of at least pretending to address the concerns of the voters.

This time round they've been handed an opportunity on a golden platter: Go anti-AI, at least enough so that people aren't worried about losing their jobs to AI.

They will not see an opportunity like this for a long time, and if MAGA wins again, blame will lie squarely on Dems who decided that arguing about men in women's sport is a productive use of their voter goodwill.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#47

Post by reeredfdfdf »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #41
reeredfdfdf wrote: post #21

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield again…

There is no such thing and European defence. There’s never going to be a scenario where if Germany was ever attacked or invaded, France or UK would send their solders to die protecting Germans and vice versa. We see that in Ukraine. No other European country would send their soldiers to die in a battle fields to protect Ukrainians

Perhaps, but at least there is material and financial support to Ukraine. I doubt AfD would continue it, or provide it for other EU member states if attacked.

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#48

Post by sajithdilshan »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #47
sajithdilshan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing and European defence. There’s never going to be a scenario where if Germany was ever attacked or invaded, France or UK would send their solders to die protecting Germans and vice versa. We see that in Ukraine. No other European country would send their soldiers to die in a battle fields to protect Ukrainians

Perhaps, but at least there is material and financial support to Ukraine. I doubt AfD would continue it, or provide it for other EU member states if attacked.

Regardless of AfD would come into power or not, that financial support is not gonna there for long. The new budget for 2027 has been proposed in German parliament and they are borrowing more than 200 billion Euros to balance the deficit. In simple terms Germany doesn’t have money anymore to handout to fight the wars in other countries

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#49

Post by balarjin »

r_lee wrote: post #29
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What immigration problem? Immigrants are wonderful. Things have only improved in Germany with immigration. It is wrong and unethical to keep immigrants out of your country, you have no right to do so.

what? why can't I then migrate to the US or whatever country I wanna go to?

The US has one immigration system for honest law-following people (Visas, green cards, etc.) and a second system for people who don't follow rules (walk in from Mexico, overstay a Visa, etc.)

Re: The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

#50

Post by mdp2021 »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #41
reeredfdfdf wrote: post #21

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield again…

There is no such thing and European defence. There’s never going to be a scenario where if Germany was ever attacked or invaded, France or UK would send their solders to die protecting Germans and vice versa. We see that in Ukraine. No other European country would send their soldiers to die in a battle fields to protect Ukrainians

> would send their soldiers to die

transforming a cold war into an full war.

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