Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

oecd.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 164 posts

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#91

Post by karmakurtisaani »

somenameforme wrote: post #76

IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation. By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'. You'd expect this to manifest in reduced test scores and reduced quality of outcomes across a breadth of fields over time paired with the inverse happenin…

I get the feeling you want to blame "woke" ideologies for this decline. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In my opinion we just have it too easy nowadays. Too much entertainment, screens and not enough challenges to keep kids thinking they need to be as sharp as they can be.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#92

Post by mcphage »

yobbo wrote: post #84
mcphage wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The exam has not changed in difficulty Has what students are expected to know changed since the 60s? For instance, have there been any, I dunno, new developments in technology over the past 60-odd years?

> Has what students are expected to know changed since the 60s? No, basic algebra and calculus has not changed.

> No, basic algebra and calculus has not changed.

That's all that's on the entrance exam? Basic algebra and calculus?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#93

Post by bmacho »

kmitz wrote: post #27

PISA data show that students who use AI for specific schoolwork tasks, such as summarising texts, drafting or conducting research, attain lower scores in science than students who do not use AI. See graphs on PISA 2025 homepage : https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/pisa-2025-results-volum... So much for all the EdTech startups that want you to use their AI teachers. Seriously, this should be a major signal to keep s…

> So much for all the EdTech startups that want you to use their AI teachers.

Kid pasting the question into ChatGPT and pasting its answer back is not the same as an AI teacher persona.

In my mind an AI teacher can be like a traditional education package (syllabus, material, questions, keeping track of progression) but way more flexible. I don't see no reason why AI teachers shouldn't give Bloom's 2 sigma effect to kids (and adults) very soon.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#94

Post by HSO »

Haven880 wrote: post #81
blululu wrote: post #35

Framing this as a pattern across the entire industrial world is a bit misleading. Looking through the data at Math Scores since 2015 shows big country level split: Japan: -3 S Korea: -1 Singapore: +1 Taiwan: +9 --- Germany: -45 France: -38 Sweden: -33 US: -10 This is an issue with the western industrialized world. Which ought to make the analysis simple since we can look at what those countries have done differently…

Those top scorer countries just soooooo happen to have world lowest birthrate. Maybe it has to do with extraordinary pressure to succeed at all cost since one is baby?

maybe check out ``western`` birth rates without immigration before spouting next time

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#95

Post by HSO »

Tade0 wrote: post #64
amadeoeoeo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see news and forums claiming the problem is screens/smartphones and social media. Given the big gap between the east and the west... does anybody know if these are somehow less used/abused in asian countries? Any other reason why this gap might happen? Thanks

Here's a data point that should help: Poland's math score dropped by just 5 points. As for other tests: Science: -4 Reading: -7. Much like with GDP per capita, my country is climbing the rankings, but only via walkover.

> but only via walkover.

what that means?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#96

Post by BeetleB »

rayiner wrote: post #67
BeetleB wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see a more detailed breakdown. In the US, often the highest performers are children of immigrants.

There is a big difference between different immigrant groups. In the U.S., children of immigrants are also often the lowest performers. The U.S. tracks test scores by race and not immigration status. But looking at test scores for hispanic students is a rough proxy because more than 60% of hispanic students are immigrants or the children of immigrants: https://www.equityinhighered.org/indicators/secondary-school... .…

> There is a big difference between different immigrant groups. In the U.S., children of immigrants are also often the lowest performers.

My comment did not preclude either of these from being true. I didn't say "On average, children of immigrants do better in the US." I said "often the highest performers are children of immigrants."

> But looking at test scores for hispanic students is a rough proxy because more than 60% of hispanic students are immigrants or the children of immigrants:

Looking at the test scores for Asians is also a rough proxy of children of immigrants, and you can see what your link shows: They are the lowest of all groups in being "below average", and the highest of all groups in the top category ("Advanced") - over double the next highest race in math, for example.

I expected better reasoning from you, given the whole "Asian and child of immigrants" ;-)

(As an aside, not sure how relevant your link is, given that it's from 2015, and the thread is about the shift from 2015 to now).

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#97

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #76

IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation. By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'. You'd expect this to manifest in reduced test scores and reduced quality of outcomes across a breadth of fields over time paired with the inverse happenin…

[deleted]

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#98

Post by BeetleB »

PKop wrote: post #80
BeetleB wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see a more detailed breakdown. In the US, often the highest performers are children of immigrants.

> children of immigrants No. Here's your breakdown. https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/2093832541161550111

My comment was about children of immigrants, and you show me a chart that excludes children of immigrants. I don't know what you're trying to say.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#99

Post by cindyllm »

Huarache1 wrote: post #85
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can torture your children with ever harsher "education" Harsh educations don’t work. Neither does modern coddling, prevalent in the West. If any adversity prompts a mental health crisis, you’re at a global disadvantage. Economically and, I’d argue, in terms of quality of life.

The issue is that Mental Health is genuinely a fleeting, seemingly slowly renewable resource brought down by either screens, stress, or something else. I believe that openly talking about it, while a great way to de-stigmatize it, may have inadvertently caused self-diagnoses and worsening symptoms to increase. There is also something else to be said about Mental Health, coming from one of the countries with the lowes…

[dead]

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#100

Post by DataDaoDe »

somenameforme wrote: post #76

IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation. By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'. You'd expect this to manifest in reduced test scores and reduced quality of outcomes across a breadth of fields over time paired with the inverse happenin…

> IQ scores in most of the Western world began reversing sometime from the 90s to early 00s. [1] That link is for the US but similar stuff has also been observed in most of every Western/OECD nation.

I wonder to what extent demographic shifts account for the observed reversal? It would be interesting to tease out what happens where composition remains constant, i.e. Poland. Though I doubt this explains the entire effect.

> By contrast they're still rapidly increasing in the 'Global South'.

seems like the Flynn effect doing its thing just as it did in western countries in the 20th century.

Post reply on HN