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Mistral raises €3B

mistral.ai

491–500 of 614 posts

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#491
post #481
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any model, even an open weight one, is fundamentally an encoding of a way of viewing the world. What kind of "alignment" are AI labs optimizing for? Ideological alignment is the full term, self-censored into something more technological-sounding. Every model has people behind it rating what it should and shouldn't say. Every time you ask a model and trust its answer, you become ever-so-slightly ideologically indoctri…

Is there a specific concern you have, and what kind of performance penalty is it worth to you on say coding tasks? Conceptually, sure I understand, but in practice it currently seems like it amounts to just using a worse model without getting anything in return. And if some hypothetical alignment to European values is important, it seems like putting the necessary effort into building a model that’s actually competit…

I think for coding tasks, it probably doesn't matter as much. I'm more worried about stuff like chatbots subtly pushing or normalizing a certain world view.

I think I'm not the only one that's had this revelation, recall the Llama4 announcement. [0]

> It’s well-known that all leading LLMs have had issues with bias—specifically, they historically have leaned left when it comes to debated political and social topics. This is due to the types of training data available on the internet.

> Our goal is to remove bias from our AI models

This goal of course is self-defeatingly impossible to achieve. There is no unbiased, there's always only an unbiased relative to the bias of the observer.

Phrased differently, models weren't right leaning enough for the American oligarchy class and they publicly shared their desire to change the ideology they perpetuate.

I think an important perspective to keep in mind here is Zizek, the philosopher who's dedicated his life's work to the functioning of ideology.

> I already am eating from the trashcan all the time. The name of this trashcan is ideology. The material force of ideology - makes me not see what I'm effectively eating. It's not only our reality which enslaves us. The tragedy of our predicament - when we are within ideology, is that - when we think that we escape it into our dreams - at that point we are within ideology.

-- Slavoj Zizek

My concern is that both the Americans and the Chinese will be aligning their models more and more ideologically and that they will function as the perfect propaganda machine - surface-level objective and unthreatening, but answering every question asked from a world view decided elsewhere.

For some tasks (like aforementioned coding), that won't matter and there we can use whatever model is most capable. But as we outsource more and more of our thinking to AI and use it more and more to educate impressionable young people, not having our own models will mean not getting a say in how societies views are shaped and perpetuated.

Imagine for example, the question: "What caused the French revolution?" There's many answers that might be technically correct. Which ones get emphasized is where ideology lives and gets perpetuated.

Since there is no unideological, the best we can do is a pluralism of ideologies building LLMs. To not build one representing your views is for your views to not be represented.

[0] https://ai.meta.com/blog/llama-4-multimodal-intelligence/

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#492
post #244
post #81

Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/

In Germany AFAIK their Senior base salary ceiling is ~ 180k EUR - approx 210k USD for an Engineering role. Thats quite competitive for a base salary, as high as max ICT5 Staff base at Apple Munich.

no one makes this in Germany

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#493
post #81

Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/

I was going to reply with "shit americans say" until I realize you're based in Paris. Isn't 90k a very good salary even for an expensive city like Paris? If it's not, MAN i'm out of touch with reality. In Italy 90K is great even in Milan.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe I can't get a list of 20 effective pro-consumer regulations drafted by the EU out of Gemini?

I don't think you're taking my "there's two sides to regulation" comment in good faith. I gave a pretty clear example of pro-consumer regulation myself. Saying that the EU is overregulating cannot possibly be that controversial, given that even the European politicians are beginning to admit it.. Draghi, Von der Leyen (even though she passes blame), Merz, Macron.

I took it in good faith I just think that:

- the overregulation narrative conflates two different problems

- and that you minimized too much the consumer benefits of EU legislation

I think the overregulation problem olis less that we have 200 EU regulations and we need to hack and slash 100 of them and more that we have 100 national regulations 25 are exact transcriptions of EU directives, 25 are transcriptions with tweaks and the other 50 are national scoped regulations and what we need to do is to make them uniform so that companies don't have to deal with 27x75 problems.

I'm a bit burned by politicians using the overregulation narrative and then not specifying a single example of a meaningfull rule that they would get rid of. Usually what is left in the air is that worker rights and consumer rights should be cut.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their margins were anywhere near this good, they wouldn't need to raise so much money so often. Why not? They are reinvesting into growth. There isn't a clear winner yet and Anthropic wants to make sure it is one of them. Taking a profit now while letting OpenAI take your marketshare and train better models is not very smart.

Or they bleed money like crazy, and their margins are pretty awful. Which is the correct answer. Your $200 subscription is a major net loss for them. The vast majority that pays for that would cancel in a heartbeat the moment they had to pay API prices. Which may or may not be profitable, I am not entirely sure. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that it is.

Why are we using consumer prices when the vast majority of their revenue is from enterprise api usage?

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#496
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To compete, we’d have to throw a lot of the regulations and laws into the trash (especially anything regarding copyright) and do an order of magnitude more investment. I’m surprised that there’s no domestic chip production either, we don’t have our own CPUs or GPUs, meanwhile China is spinning up manufacturing so they don’t have to work around the Nvidia export restrictions as much. I like Mistral and there’s cool st…

> I’m surprised that there’s no domestic chip production either, we don’t have our own CPUs or GPUs, meanwhile China is spinning up manufacturing so they don’t have to work around the Nvidia export restrictions as much. The CCP is able to plan the economy. We used to be able to do that in the 60s-70s, at least in France, but that mindset is long gone.

In the long run a planned economy is a huge disadvantage, the Soviets and now the the CCP are prime examples. For instance, the CCP is also sitting on a bunch of practically empty metropolises, paired with a property bubble and a falling population (all of which are exist to their meddling).

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they bleed money like crazy, and their margins are pretty awful. Which is the correct answer. Your $200 subscription is a major net loss for them. The vast majority that pays for that would cancel in a heartbeat the moment they had to pay API prices. Which may or may not be profitable, I am not entirely sure. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that it is.

Are we still calculated $200 subscription token spend based on their highly inflated API token cost and then concluding that they must be losing money on all $200 subscriptions?

Are their API token costs highly inflated? I see no evidence of that.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they bleed money like crazy, and their margins are pretty awful. Which is the correct answer. Your $200 subscription is a major net loss for them. The vast majority that pays for that would cancel in a heartbeat the moment they had to pay API prices. Which may or may not be profitable, I am not entirely sure. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that it is.

Why are we using consumer prices when the vast majority of their revenue is from enterprise api usage?

Wihout insight on how much enterprise is paying, it is impossible to draw any conclusions. Unless you have any access to their contracts and are willing to share evidence? I find that highly unlikely.

People here throw around crazy numbers - the dude above was claiming they have some insane good margins, numberd that he took out of his ass.

The only evidence I have is that they are incredibly unprofitable, and they keep raising insane amounts of capital like crazy.

There was a leak sometime ago that they were EBITDA positive during a quarter where they didn't pay for part of their compute. And EBITDA is a cute metric to use when depreciation is actually very important to them, as a model from a year or so ago is nearly worthless.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#499
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the point of having “sovereign” weights that are worse than publicly available ones? Wouldn’t Europe be better off just keeping up-to-date on the Chinese releases? In the event of some schism requiring sovereign capability, or even if the Chinese pulled ahead and stopped releasing the weights, why would Europe be better off because of Mistral? (Or any country’s inferior sovereign effort make them better off?)…

> In the event of some schism … In the views of most Europeans, that schism already happened. Europe was perfectly happy to rely on US software and services for decades. None of the large US tech companies would be nearly as profitable if they hadn’t had a whole continent of wealthy customers, and no competition. I don’t think Americans are realizing yet how much has changed for us the past two years.

That's your fantasy. Reality is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49607443

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/ Does the US position come with 5 weeks paid vacation? When the US position gets hit with layoffs, do you still have comprehensive healthcare and unemployment coverage? Yes, EU software Eng salaries are a lot lower…

> quite a lot of folks are happy having a top 5% salary in their own county, without all the stresses and risks of working in the US. Yes, absolutely, the problem is these are not the people you want to hire. And the people you do want to hire are either already in US or work for a US company remotely for 3x the salary.

US companies almost always adjust salaries for LCOL. The days of them paying 3x local salaries are long past...
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