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PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

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Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#81

Post by Haven880 »

blululu wrote: post #35

Framing this as a pattern across the entire industrial world is a bit misleading. Looking through the data at Math Scores since 2015 shows big country level split: Japan: -3 S Korea: -1 Singapore: +1 Taiwan: +9 --- Germany: -45 France: -38 Sweden: -33 US: -10 This is an issue with the western industrialized world. Which ought to make the analysis simple since we can look at what those countries have done differently…

Those top scorer countries just soooooo happen to have world lowest birthrate. Maybe it has to do with extraordinary pressure to succeed at all cost since one is baby?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#84

Post by yobbo »

mcphage wrote: post #51
nntwozz wrote: post #10

At Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg Sweden 80% of the students would pass the entrance exam in the 60s. These days it's reversed, only 20% pass. I was told this was the case around 2005 when I studied there. The exam has not changed in difficulty.

> The exam has not changed in difficulty Has what students are expected to know changed since the 60s? For instance, have there been any, I dunno, new developments in technology over the past 60-odd years?

> Has what students are expected to know changed since the 60s?

No, basic algebra and calculus has not changed.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#85

Post by Huarache1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73
RGamma wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can torture your children with ever harsher "education", almost none of which matters in non-research positions. Then don't be surprised when they run out.

> you can torture your children with ever harsher "education" Harsh educations don’t work. Neither does modern coddling, prevalent in the West. If any adversity prompts a mental health crisis, you’re at a global disadvantage. Economically and, I’d argue, in terms of quality of life.

The issue is that Mental Health is genuinely a fleeting, seemingly slowly renewable resource brought down by either screens, stress, or something else. I believe that openly talking about it, while a great way to de-stigmatize it, may have inadvertently caused self-diagnoses and worsening symptoms to increase.

There is also something else to be said about Mental Health, coming from one of the countries with the lowest rates of someone taking their own lives, and its not just due to underreporting.

Peru probably isn't the best place to live, but the food, weather, people, and general culture which almost normalizes suffering in an almost Buddhist way (Sufre Peruano sufre! lit. Suffer Peruvian, Suffer!) might have something to do with a more robust mental health situation?

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#86

Post by rtkwe »

goalieca wrote: post #46
zulban wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sloppy conclusion about edtech startups. If everyone is hiring a "tutor" to just do their homework for them, that doesn't mean that all tutors are bad.

There’s many books and established schools of thought about computers being terrible for learning even before the latest wave AI edtech nonsense. Simply put, there’s nothing better than old school pen to paper.

The biggest speedbump to that is teacher time. Grading and returning worksheets for students is a huge unpaid time sink for teachers.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#87

Post by gonzalohm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
gonzalohm wrote: post #68

Anecdotal, but in Spain kids don't take these tests seriously. I remember when we were in school we would ask if the tests counted towards the final note for the subject and they didn't so we would just basically finish asap so we could do other things. And I think this wasn't a "just my class" kind of thing.

> in Spain kids don't take these tests seriously Is there evidence for this attitude not generalizing?

I don't have any other evidence, but if there are any Spaniards here I would like to hear what they think

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#88

Post by piokoch »

Yup, this is "inclusive education" effects, predicted long time ago by education experts. Kids with special needs (from handicapped to criminals) are thrown into regular schools and classes, making education totally inefficient. In Poland one of the best on the World system of special education is being demolished in the name of this absurdity. But this is what people voted for.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#89

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Huarache1 wrote: post #85
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can torture your children with ever harsher "education" Harsh educations don’t work. Neither does modern coddling, prevalent in the West. If any adversity prompts a mental health crisis, you’re at a global disadvantage. Economically and, I’d argue, in terms of quality of life.

The issue is that Mental Health is genuinely a fleeting, seemingly slowly renewable resource brought down by either screens, stress, or something else. I believe that openly talking about it, while a great way to de-stigmatize it, may have inadvertently caused self-diagnoses and worsening symptoms to increase. There is also something else to be said about Mental Health, coming from one of the countries with the lowes…

> Mental Health is genuinely a fleeting, seemingly slowly renewable resource

Is there a credible source for “mental health” being an extinguishable quantity? This sounds an awful lot like the battery hypothesis of longevity.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#90

Post by bayindirh »

Haven880 wrote: post #81
blululu wrote: post #35

Framing this as a pattern across the entire industrial world is a bit misleading. Looking through the data at Math Scores since 2015 shows big country level split: Japan: -3 S Korea: -1 Singapore: +1 Taiwan: +9 --- Germany: -45 France: -38 Sweden: -33 US: -10 This is an issue with the western industrialized world. Which ought to make the analysis simple since we can look at what those countries have done differently…

Those top scorer countries just soooooo happen to have world lowest birthrate. Maybe it has to do with extraordinary pressure to succeed at all cost since one is baby?

I don't think so. While I believe more in the student than the school for success, in the formative years, a good foundation is necessary, as somebody can't know better if they don't know anything.

So, a good education system's effects are compounded for younger children w.r.t. higher education.

So, these education systems need a check and tune-up to adapt them to current age and perform at their peak again.

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