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This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

ladybird.org

61–70 of 86 posts

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#61

few stupid questions as always so that i can become a smarter person - what is the process of making a browser engine? what does the requirements look like - how is an actual html, css and javascript speification implemented at the code level? are we painting an empty canvas or is it more complicated - how is backward compatibility implemented? - is all the code written in c++ or is it rust these days? - how many peo…

The book Web Browser Engineering may be interesting: https://browser.engineering/

> - how many people in a team do you need and how long would it take to write a browser engine from scratch

The boring not-really-an-answer is "it depends on which sites you want to render properly": a browser capable of rendering Hacker News is a perfectly fine one-person project (which the book would get you to), supporting things like banking and online mail requires not just developers but also people willing to "dogfood" test it as their daily browser

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#62
post #50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web standards are enormously complex compared to that time. Not sure if today's tooling can compensate this.

The complexity of web standards isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of the "complexity" (as usually judged by the raw size of the spec) is just existing APIs evolving to be more rigorously defined. Before that level of specificity, browser implementations varied and engineers had to make certain decisions. A more "complex" spec can sometimes make the job of the engineer simpler.

That's not the kind of complexity that is the problem though. The complexity you have to deal with is just more and more features being shoved into the spec at breakneck speed, or if they are not in the spec, it's just Google adding them to their engine and everyone starts using them anyway to the quasi-monopoly of Chromium-based browsers.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#63
post #26

I am watching this project with interest. It's impressive that they're doing such titanic work. However, I'm highly skeptical that they can create a real rival to established browsers. I'm sorry for telling this, but Web standards are simply too complex and huge. Ladybird to Chrome / Firefox is almost like Wine / ReactOS to Windows, that last 3-5% of gap actually differentiates a normal browser from a browser that is…

It is a nightmare scenario: you have a long tail of thousands of websites that are broken, a large complex codebase and you need hours of time per bug for a human to investigate and fix it. Some trickier bugs could take days to diagnose. It's not sustainable for a small team. Luckily, I think this is one of the cases where AI can be leveraged appropriately, and give them a fighting chance of catching up.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#64
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ladybird seems to have received a nice boost in momentum in the past two years. I'm still very interested in the project and look forward to each monthly update, and I can empathize (though not agree) with the reasoning, but something is off ever since they announced the decision to close the project to outside contributions. It's still Open Source, but only a self-selected group of maintainers gets to write and me…

The flood of low effort AI-contributions makes accepting anonymous contributions impractical nowadays. They'd waste hours reviewing things of no value. I know because it happened to several of my moderately successful projects. At some point I had to stop caring. I now only review the PR if the message is a single unformatted paragraph with few emojis, I find this to be a good signal that it was made by a human and n…

Looks like we need some kind of reputation mechanism for contributors.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#65
I'm honestly relieved to see that I'm not the only one to test optimized/newer implementations against less optimized/older implementations. It's what I came up with after thinking about it for quite a while and I've been wondering why so little other software seems to do that. In my case, it's about serialization code. My test compare self-reported reader / writer states and serialized data.

Ladybird goes further by also running the engines in parallel in debug builds during normal use. They have a way to extract test cases from any bugs found that way.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#66
post #64
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flood of low effort AI-contributions makes accepting anonymous contributions impractical nowadays. They'd waste hours reviewing things of no value. I know because it happened to several of my moderately successful projects. At some point I had to stop caring. I now only review the PR if the message is a single unformatted paragraph with few emojis, I find this to be a good signal that it was made by a human and n…

Looks like we need some kind of reputation mechanism for contributors.

https://github.com/mitchellh/vouch

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#67
post #55

Ugh, this guy again. I would stop using the web forever before I used Ladybird or anything made by Kling. You praise DHH and Charlie Kirk, your moral compass is broken.

Context: https://kvibber.com/reviews/software/ladybird-inclusivity/

That's just the start of how many people came to learn about Kling. There was worse to come, apparently.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#68

few stupid questions as always so that i can become a smarter person - what is the process of making a browser engine? what does the requirements look like - how is an actual html, css and javascript speification implemented at the code level? are we painting an empty canvas or is it more complicated - how is backward compatibility implemented? - is all the code written in c++ or is it rust these days? - how many peo…

> what is the process of making a browser engine? what does the requirements look like

I second https://browser.engineering as a resource on that. Also consider dropping into the Servo Zulip.

> how is an actual html, css and javascript specification implemented at the code level? are we painting an empty canvas or is it more complicated

It's more complicated, but conceptually it's painting into an empty canvas

> how is backward compatibility implemented? > what test cases do you consider for making something like this? how do you determine if you have handled all the outliers or not?

The ~2 million Web Platform Tests https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt. They also handle most of the backwards compatibility. The rest is engine developers manually comparing against each other's engines.

> is all the code written in c++ or is it rust these days?

There's still a lot of C++, but new code is increasingly Rust. To what degree varies by engine: Servo (and Blitz) are almost entirely Rust. Ladybird was 100% C++ in February, but is now 25% Rust. Firefox has significant and actively developed core components in Rust, but isn't actively converting more core modules. Chromium doesn't have any core components in Rust yet, but has invested heavily in converting foundational dependencies like FreeType and HarfBuzz to Rust. Safari is the outlier, I believe it doesn't use any Rust yet.

> how many people in a team do you need and how long would it take to write a browser engine from scratch

I've heard estimates that Chrome has a team of >1000, Firefox 500-800, Safari 100-200, Servo / Ladybird are more like 5-10. I've been building Blitz by myself for ~3 years. Something like 3-5 years is probably a minimum if you're truly building from scratch unless you have a really large team backing it, and depending on your success criteria.

> how is mobile vs desktop handled at the browser engine code level?

There are actually surprisingly few differences beyond touch input and screen size handling.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your concerns but also think that a new viable browser engine will be such a benefit to the health of the open web that I'm willing to overlook such irregularities, at least for now. sqlite doesn't accept contributions either and it's done well for itself, and if Ladybird ends up going sour there's always the possibility of a fork. This is similar to my stance towards Firefox: despite the actions of Mozi…

Multiple browser engines reimplementing the same things fragments engineering resources and blink based browsers do have working as blockers. In fact ladybird uses the same adblocker as Brave, which is blink based.

It also fragments power, which makes it worth it.

Re: This Month in Ladybird – August 2026

#70
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ladybird seems to have received a nice boost in momentum in the past two years. I'm still very interested in the project and look forward to each monthly update, and I can empathize (though not agree) with the reasoning, but something is off ever since they announced the decision to close the project to outside contributions. It's still Open Source, but only a self-selected group of maintainers gets to write and me…

> It's still Open Source, but only a self-selected group of maintainers gets to write and merge code, at least for the time being. That is the way the BSDs are developed and they're free software. If you want to you can pull the code and modify whatever you want. Let them get the thing up and running first, then see how the project handles external contributions. If they somehow fail to see the brilliance of some ext…

No, it isn't.

Ladybird [0]: "We will no longer accept public pull requests. From now on, code changes to the Ladybird codebase will only be introduced by project maintainers. [...] There will not be a separate process for submitting patches by other means."

FreeBSD [1]: "So you want to contribute to FreeBSD? That is great! FreeBSD relies on the contributions of its user base to survive. Your contributions are not only appreciated, they are vital to FreeBSD’s continued growth. [...] If you are submitting a simple patch to the src repo, please consider submitting it to the project’s GitHub mirror as a pull request."

[0] https://ladybird.org/posts/changing-how-we-develop-ladybird/

[1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/contributing/

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