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Asahi Linux on M3

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#361

Post by zer0zzz »

LtWorf wrote: post #327
zer0zzz wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebKit, clang, the llvm backend for arm64

webkit is a fork from KDE, so "initiated" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. llvm also existed from before although apple supported the development. I was curious if apple had actually started any FOSS project.

In both cases you're undercounting apples investment just to make a really dense point on HN.

1) khtml was a really minimal renderer in KDE before apple pumped tens of millions into turning it into the first really modern web2.0 browser, you really can not underestimate the amount of money jobs was willing to pump to make that thing what it became by the time the iphone launched.

2) llvm was essentially apple's bet on a grad student hire and him and his lab's academic project. I knew and worked with several of those former uiuc guys. llvm and clang as we know them today were heavily built at apple.

Also, you are totally (and purposefully probably) misquoting me. I said __clang__ and the __llvm arm64 backend__ were done by apple, and they were almost entirely from scratch from the start at Apple.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#362

Post by zer0zzz »

brewmarche wrote: post #333
LtWorf wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

webkit is a fork from KDE, so "initiated" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. llvm also existed from before although apple supported the development. I was curious if apple had actually started any FOSS project.

Swift comes to mind, and this website has more https://opensource.apple.com/projects/ (it lists WebKit, but I guess they count WebKit after it split from KHTML, I’d agree with you there) Also, Bonjour originated at Apple and it is cross-platform, although Avahi probably is more popular CUPS is associated with Apple as well, but it seems that it also did not originate there

I was going to say swift, but I figured someone would undercount that because it is so overly relevant as an iOS/Mac development language even though it really is a pretty good portable language. But man... undercounting webkit and clang+llvm is a new level of ignorance..

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#363

Post by LtWorf »

zer0zzz wrote: post #362
brewmarche wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swift comes to mind, and this website has more https://opensource.apple.com/projects/ (it lists WebKit, but I guess they count WebKit after it split from KHTML, I’d agree with you there) Also, Bonjour originated at Apple and it is cross-platform, although Avahi probably is more popular CUPS is associated with Apple as well, but it seems that it also did not originate there

I was going to say swift, but I figured someone would undercount that because it is so overly relevant as an iOS/Mac development language even though it really is a pretty good portable language. But man... undercounting webkit and clang+llvm is a new level of ignorance..

It is ignorance to call them apple projects when they really aren't. The copyright notice of webkit is full of emails like @kde.org… wonder why it's not entirely @apple.com?

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#364

Post by brewmarche »

zer0zzz wrote: post #362
brewmarche wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swift comes to mind, and this website has more https://opensource.apple.com/projects/ (it lists WebKit, but I guess they count WebKit after it split from KHTML, I’d agree with you there) Also, Bonjour originated at Apple and it is cross-platform, although Avahi probably is more popular CUPS is associated with Apple as well, but it seems that it also did not originate there

I was going to say swift, but I figured someone would undercount that because it is so overly relevant as an iOS/Mac development language even though it really is a pretty good portable language. But man... undercounting webkit and clang+llvm is a new level of ignorance..

They asked about ‘originated’ in particular.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#365

Post by pjjpo »

shmoe wrote: post #244

It is odd that Apple doesn't chip in here... they've originated so much decent stuff in the OSS space. Seems like a huge missed opportunity.

I would like to have a great laptop running Linux but the hardware options are just not there.

So I end up with a MacBook with macOS. Some may refuse to do that but I expect that's only a tiny missed opportunity.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#366

Post by saagarjha »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #199
saagarjha wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot can’t be disabled, even with SIP disabled. Sure you can > You can kind of disable communication of TCP/IP but they’ll find alternatives - like low power bluetooth or even lower in the network stack. No

So many daemons. And while a lot can be disabled, some of them cause important stuff to break if you disable them, or even cause the OS to crash in a Heisenbugian fashion. And there's no documentation. So debugging this crap is anything but simple.

I didn't say it was easy, I just said it was possible. Obviously ripping out random parts of the OS is not guaranteed to produce something reasonable

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#367

Post by saagarjha »

afpx wrote: post #215
saagarjha wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot can’t be disabled, even with SIP disabled. Sure you can > You can kind of disable communication of TCP/IP but they’ll find alternatives - like low power bluetooth or even lower in the network stack. No

No, really you can't disable all of the services with SIP disabled, at least not the latest Tahoe. Maybe there's a better tool than launchctl, but I don't know what that is. Plus, you disable one, and it crashes and you have to debug it for an hour. Yes, I'm exaggerating about the networking. Yes, you can lock it down by turning off all of the devices, but honestly, I'm still not 100% on that. It was a surprise to me…

That would of course depend on what you plan to do with the machine, no?

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#368

Post by raverbashing »

zer0zzz wrote: post #325
raverbashing wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know, but even in a well rounded Linux it seems you hit several mini-annoyances every day Case in point, any form of package management. Or then you have Flatpack, with its own list of issues

That’s broadly the problem with all distros on all platforms though. I meant to highlight that as far as distros go asahi is not bad.

Yes I understand, it does seem like it's one of the most rounded ones

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#369

Post by nijave »

Danox wrote: post #217
nijave wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could open source their software so others could utilise the code instead of needing reverse engineering

Darwin is open source has been for 25-26 years is it too much hard work? https://github.com/PureDarwin/PureDarwin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) https://www.puredarwin.org/

Which doesn't even boot on modern Apple hardware without all the closed source bits...

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#370

Post by stasomatic »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #288
publlus_enigma wrote: post #194

The reason this amazing project exists is the same reason my current Mac will be my last Mac. I wish the team every success.

I got my first ever Mac relatively recently and I'm shocked by how annoying MacOS is. Maybe the mistake was expecting a proper operating system that puts the user in charge and not something more similar to iOS. Also Mac forums are full of dumb users and aren't much help. Average problem solving experience: There is no solution because Apple doesn't allow it, the workaround doesn't really do what you want and the oth…

Could you cite a few issues that you've run across, please?

I have used Macs since the late 80s, there have always been teething problems, duds and effups, but nothing that wasn't addressed by independent Mac devs. How can Apple make everyone happy?

But these days? With codex/claude/et al, you can make your Mac sing to whatever tune you prefer. I feel a bit bad for indies, but they still have not-prosumer market to make their living. I now just make my own apps to replace what I've bought in the past.

Cheers

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