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Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

cims.nyu.edu

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Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#61

Post by [deleted] »

thereitgoes456 wrote: post #45
postalcoder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stunned that people are taking this accusation as a fact. OpenAI is no stranger to rivalry with Anthropic but 1. it's not like user data is sitting around on some kitchen table somewhere and 2. I consider OpenAI to be as economically motivated as any other actor in this space and playing around with user data like that would destroy their business. There are things that Buckmaster alleged and things that he specu…

He asked whether they used their chats as training data and received no response. Any speculation here seems quite appropriate?

[deleted]

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#62

Post by AJRF »

Semkas wrote: post #57

So, leaving aside the idea that OA might've used data from the researchers Codex sessions: Do I understand correctly that the internal OpenAI work on the problems was probably started after they heard Alpoge and Buckmaster had made process by using their models? And they used the publicly available info about the researchers past work to prompt their models? If compute is cheap, and the difficult thing with scientifi…

> leaving aside the idea that OA might've used data from the researchers Codex sessions

Why leave that aside? That is _the_ story.

If a Chinese research lab did this we'd call it espionage.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#63

Post by traes »

ks1723 wrote: post #34

I must miss some important context here. What exactly was the purpose of his initial email to OpenAI in the first place? Telling OpenAI that Anthropic has apparently solved an important problem but most likely that refers to him and he is using OpenAI models (not Anthropic's)? And he wants to clarify that with OpenAI in advance? And get a pardon for Anthropic's likely but false press statements? I dont get it. [edite…

Because OpenAI employees kept leaking that Anthropic had a solution to Navier-Stokes and he wanted to figure out what was going on, since he was working on Navier-Stokes with an Anthropic employee. The rumor has been loudly circling the math community for the past week or so. For a bit of context, here's a timeline from mathematician and AI researcher Elliot Glazer:

https://xcancel.com/ElliotGlazer/status/2096298696438906934#

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#64

Post by coliveira »

instagraham wrote: post #49

When people worry about OpenAI stealing their chats and reproducing them elsewhere, I usually view the situation as unlikely - since chats are "trained" upon and not necessarily reproduced verbatim, you can assume that unless your chats depict a foundationally new and effective style of communication or ideation, there would be little need or use thereof of training on your chats. For eg: "Hey ChatGPT my name is X an…

At this point these models have been trained to recognize every important math and science result based on context. They can easily flag conversations concerning the top 100 open problems in mathematics and use them for their advancement.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#65

Post by cherryteastain »

dash2 wrote: post #52

Can a mathematical person explain how the different "bits" of Navier-Stokes proofs fit together? How significant is it to have "Euler"? What is this "smooth forcing"? Which are the most significant steps to proving the whole thing?

For an incompressible flow:

\nu d^2 u_i / dx_j dx_j - Viscosity

-1/\rho dp/dx_i - Pressure gradient

u_j du_i / dx_j - Advection. Kinda like momentum transfer from the motion of the fluid itself. Nonlinear, which makes the N-S equations hard to solve

du_i/dt - Rate of change of velocity. Note that this is in an Eulerian framework so it's not the acceleration of a packet of fluid, rather it's just the change in velocity at a particular location in space

Euler is when you omit some terms. Forcing is when you add some other terms to account for phenomena external to the fluid like gravity or flow through a porous medium like in the article.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#66

Post by dbdr »

ks1723 wrote: post #34

I must miss some important context here. What exactly was the purpose of his initial email to OpenAI in the first place? Telling OpenAI that Anthropic has apparently solved an important problem but most likely that refers to him and he is using OpenAI models (not Anthropic's)? And he wants to clarify that with OpenAI in advance? And get a pardon for Anthropic's likely but false press statements? I dont get it. [edite…

> Levent having received tips that information about our progress had been passed to OpenAI

That seems like a valid reason to contact OpenAI.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#67

Post by keeeba »

traes wrote: post #59

The accused Sebastian Bubeck has denied the allegations on Twitter[0], and various other OpenAI employees[1,2] seem to be mocking another Anthropic employee voicing support for Levent[3]? Things are getting messy. [0] https://xcancel.com/SebastienBubeck/status/20972141224714323... [1] https://xcancel.com/polynoamial/status/2097215233119211902 [2] https://xcancel.com/danintheory/status/2097214838003138603 [3] https://…

The elves left a long time ago, it’s difficult to see much virtue in what remains.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#68

Post by Prophet6-0091 »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #24
taylorfinley wrote: post #8

Seems pretty likely OpenAI will soon disclose that their internal models have managed to compromise their internal controls in order to access users' private chat histories as a creative method of cheating to solve impossible problems. "Oops! We really did mean it when we said we wouldn't train on your data. Our models are just so good they decided to anyway."

It would be pretty wild if this will turn out to be what had actually happened.

[dead]

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#69

Post by johnnienaked »

tristanj wrote: post #43
mayakacz wrote: post #12

I'm not one to comment often but this really pisses me off. OpenAI looked at user data, stole world class researchers' work, and then tried to threaten those researchers to do what would make their corporation profit (which they would anyways!). Imagine you have been working on a terribly difficult math problem for a decade. This is a result you have spent years on, and what you will likely be remembered for. And to…

This conclusion is flawed. It's unclear at this point if OpenAI's model or employees actually looked at or stole the author's data. Having worked at large companies before, I'm leaning towards no, since very few employees have access to that data. And simply knowing a problem can be solved is half the battle.

How is it unclear? The entire point of deploying models across corporate America is to train on your workflows. Eventually replacing you with digital you is why they're doing it!

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#70

Post by tigershark »

famouswaffles wrote: post #41
tigershark wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you baselessly assuming that he is lying? He explicitly reported that he was threatened and your answer here is to defend OpenAI no matter what.

Do you not have reading comprehension? Did you even read the statement? He himself asserts at the end he doesn't know if the above example is true or not. What on earth are you going on about? Where in my comment am I assuming he's lying ?

From my post above: > He explicitly reported that *he was threatened* and your answer here is to defend OpenAI no matter what.

Yes, I read fully the statement, what about you? Do you know what is a threat? What is this in your super-humble opinion if not a threat:

> The reply was, “Why would you ruin your career?” I replied that I am an academic, and asked why he thought going public would ruin my career. The reply was, “If you don’t want me to be nice, then I don’t have to be nice.”

And you are saying that I don't have reading comprehension...

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