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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#901

Post by jwr »

Animats wrote: post #571

Here are LG's contract terms for appliances.[1] They are awful. Not only can they listen in. You have a contractual requirement to tell everyone in range of an appliance that they may be eavesdropped upon. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members…

I have an LG TV. It has been pestering me with those licensing agreements from time to time, but interestingly enough, I was only required to agree to fairly reasonable basics, everything else I just ignored and left for later.

I'm guessing this is an oversight and the TV does record, but then this is criminal. But, nobody will bother to prosecute them I guess...

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#902

Post by lrvick »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #822
fluidcruft wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what a streaming stick is for? Who needs those complex TV remotes anyway. I've been running on Roku remotes for years and haven't missed anything. Even TiVo remotes are too complex.

Streaming sticks also collect your data. Roku does ACR unless you opt out.

Sure but some are just regular computers that run windows, easily converted to Linux.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#903

Post by lrvick »

fwip wrote: post #819
lrvick wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But surely you know the TV will have ads, and spyware and screenshots you every few seconds to send to manufactures, and in some cases even has microphones involved? The apps built into the screen literally meet the definition of trojans which any casual search on most brands would tell you. All avoidable by plugging in an $20 dedicated source device for streaming or whatever. Is saving the $20 really worth it?

Genuine question - are there any $20 streaming sticks that don't put their own advertisements in?

A Pi Zero running an SD card image built for streaming. Plenty of them. Take your pick.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#904

Post by bayindirh »

godelski wrote: post #872
bayindirh wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's Wifi and Bluetooth one-touch toggle off for now buttons? This comparison rubs me off the wrong way every time I see, because. 1. The notifications clearly tell the behavior (doing $THING until tomorrow). 2. There's a way to turn them "really off". What LG does is completely different. IIRC from the teaser of this video, the microphone is never "completely" off or apps can re-enable them somehow.

Norman Doors. Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals. Apple could have done many different things to make the design clea…

> Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles.

Yes, good design needs no language. However, it's not reasonable to see a toggle and think it's a permanent toggle. Esp, when it's a button. There are many buttons in the world which doesn't toggle. In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.

> Apple could have done many different things to make the design clearer.

They did, actually. They added clear messaging, think about a LCD screen on top of a button, and have iconography communicating the status clearly.

> But no matter what, the current design is abhorrent...

I'll respectfully disagree here with you.

> ...because they use the same design language for a temporary toggle and a real toggle.

Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:

    - Enabled: Blue background
    - Temporary disconnect: White background
    - Disable: Line through icon.
Also, again, a real toggle has a different design in iOS, you know, which looks like a Braun inspired sliding switch.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#905

Post by lrvick »

zapzupnz wrote: post #802
lrvick wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So most consumers are willing to knowingly give up privacy, security, and freedom just to save 20 bucks on a hdmi streaming device? I have no words for how depressing that is. Then again most consumers use Bytedance, Meta, Google, and Apple products so I guess I should not be too surprised.

> So most consumers are willing to knowingly "Knowingly". No, they don't know. You seem to think that because you know, then so must everybody else. I have no words for how depressing that way of thinking is.

Why would anyone not take 5 minutes to research a major purchase? They have Internet access!

I mean obviously I expect Grandma not to know, but anyone that knows enough to connect to the internet knows how to use a search engine.

Corpos get away with blatant factory malware and security negligence because consumers are so predictably unwilling to research anything beyond what their social media algorithm of choice shows them as they scroll.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#906

Post by blahblaher »

I've just looked at the terms of service and privacy terms on an "old" C1 Oled, and it's "disgusting" the amount of spying they want to do. Turned everything off except for the minimum required to play Youtube on the tv. What a pos of a company. And yes I know (almost?) all of them are doing something similar

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#907

Post by ninalanyon »

Animats wrote: post #571

Here are LG's contract terms for appliances.[1] They are awful. Not only can they listen in. You have a contractual requirement to tell everyone in range of an appliance that they may be eavesdropped upon. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members…

When do you get to see these terms?

The discussion seems to imply that they are seen only after purchase (I haven't read the article).

If that is so they are void and unenforceable in most jurisdictions as you cannot agree to something in a contract that you cannot read.

Are such terms enforceable in the US?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#909

Post by Koshcheiushko »

I've one question: I've used android phone (realme, which is chinese). And i remember that whenever we used to discuss somethings among our friends, i started used to get ads realated to that on my laptop, phone within atmost a hour.

So, was realme transcribing all conversations and uploading it? Can someone answer?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#910

Post by gsliepen »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #722
JoshTriplett wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly.

> Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly. I disagree with this as stated. Maybe in the right context you could make a case for it, but in general? Heck no. Intent matters a great deal, and there is no justice in treating someone incompetent (or negligent) the same as someone who is actually malicious. Both things are bad, but the latter is worse than the…

> Intent matters a great deal,

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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