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Mistral raises €3B

mistral.ai

161–170 of 611 posts

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#161
post #59
post #45

Mistral is an interesting AI company because they clearly have a contrarian business strategy to the other AI labs. They're also landing big customers in Europe for the right reasons. People dump on them because they're not benchmaxxxing which is pretty shortsighted - do you really want to be in a benchmark arms race with China, or do you want to make money and deploy sovereign AI compute in Europe?

This is a bottom feeder mentality. Europe has enough bright people and resources to truly compete in the AI race. There is something wrong when the only selling point is that it's local.

To compete, we’d have to throw a lot of the regulations and laws into the trash (especially anything regarding copyright) and do an order of magnitude more investment.

I’m surprised that there’s no domestic chip production either, we don’t have our own CPUs or GPUs, meanwhile China is spinning up manufacturing so they don’t have to work around the Nvidia export restrictions as much.

I like Mistral and there’s cool stuff going on like how EuroLLM models know Latvian language and all the other EU ones better than way bigger models, but we don’t have anything frontier.

At the very least, they should be distilling Kimi K3 and GLM 5.3 as much as possible and working on MoE models like ~35B and ~120B versions to match Qwen.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#162
post #96

Europe absolutely needs a home-grown AI lab, especially with Pax Americana looking increasingly shaky. LLMs embody value systems, and American and European values are not the same (yes, there are overlaps, but also key differences). More nefariously, I can also imagine LLMs that silently degrade their reasoning when used in a national security context of a non-US country. So, Mistral may not be competitive with OpenA…

>I’m sort of surprised that the EU isn’t stepping in to support them.

On a similar note: Why does it have to be the EU to step up?

Why doesn't EU rather speed up making VC investments more attractive, so that EU and banks don't do the majority of investing?

*I don't have answers to these questions. It just frustrates me how many investments here come from politicians and banks, rather than from investors, people, and companies.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#163
post #59
post #45

Mistral is an interesting AI company because they clearly have a contrarian business strategy to the other AI labs. They're also landing big customers in Europe for the right reasons. People dump on them because they're not benchmaxxxing which is pretty shortsighted - do you really want to be in a benchmark arms race with China, or do you want to make money and deploy sovereign AI compute in Europe?

This is a bottom feeder mentality. Europe has enough bright people and resources to truly compete in the AI race. There is something wrong when the only selling point is that it's local.

you mean like Boeing vs Airbus?

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes...? Is that not self evident by the insane revenue from frontier labs?

> Is that not self evident by the insane revenue from frontier labs? No...? Of course not? Because revenue is only one side of the equation. Did you ever look at total cumulative OPEX and CAPEX, and how long it will take them to even just break even at current growth?

Anthropic is growing 10x revenue every year.

They're likely over $80b ARR by now. They'll be at $800b ARR next year at the same rate. Let's say their growth gets cut down to 3x instead of 10x - that's still $240b ARR by this time next year.

When you are growing so fast, you don't need to make a net profit. You just need to make sure your unit economics are good - which it seems like they are given reports that their gross margins are at 60-70%.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#165
post #35

Mistral is not that bad as the comments here suggest. I am not using it as a frontier model but with simple RAG tasks and its doing great. Also OCR is pretty decent. It's a positive development that Europe is at least trying. Alternative would be: do nothing.

The problem is that they're in a weird position between US models and Chinese models. Not as performant as US models, not as cheap as Chinese models. Especially as Chinese models are getting better Mistral is getting less and less relevant. It pains me because I want them to succeed, but despite them denying it I believe they'll end up restrict their activity to (1) selling hosting for Chinese models (they're already…

If there’s one thing the legacy, dying industrial companies of Europe love, it’s consulting.

So they’ll probably make more money creating PowerPoints with ChatGPT than they will trying to compete with the US and China.

Which would be the most European outcome ever.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#166
post #45

Mistral is an interesting AI company because they clearly have a contrarian business strategy to the other AI labs. They're also landing big customers in Europe for the right reasons. People dump on them because they're not benchmaxxxing which is pretty shortsighted - do you really want to be in a benchmark arms race with China, or do you want to make money and deploy sovereign AI compute in Europe?

Realistically they will have to deploy the Chinese models or their finetuned versions though since their models are completely out of date and not competitive. Outside of maybe government contracts it will be hard to compete against Azure/AWS who promise to run their models in EU datacenters and not store any data since actual companies normally prefer frontier models with decent performance (cost/performance is pretty decent as well if you are fine with e.g. Luna which is massively better than anything Mistral can offer).

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they're in a weird position between US models and Chinese models. Not as performant as US models, not as cheap as Chinese models. Especially as Chinese models are getting better Mistral is getting less and less relevant. It pains me because I want them to succeed, but despite them denying it I believe they'll end up restrict their activity to (1) selling hosting for Chinese models (they're already…

If there’s one thing the legacy, dying industrial companies of Europe love, it’s consulting. So they’ll probably make more money creating PowerPoints with ChatGPT than they will trying to compete with the US and China. Which would be the most European outcome ever.

Not just legacy dying industry. Whole IT in France and Switzerland runs on consultancy.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#168
post #45

Mistral is an interesting AI company because they clearly have a contrarian business strategy to the other AI labs. They're also landing big customers in Europe for the right reasons. People dump on them because they're not benchmaxxxing which is pretty shortsighted - do you really want to be in a benchmark arms race with China, or do you want to make money and deploy sovereign AI compute in Europe?

I tried them via OpenRouter. I loved their OCR. I really disliked their code generation. It was about six months ago -- so it was a geological era ago in this world. However Mistral is legally favored in Europe. In fact from my point of view , using them presents no trouble with GDPR (I live and work in Europe). I'm NOT a lawyer but I'm a technician that define itself 'privacy savy'.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#169
post #81

Last I saw job offers for mistral (engineering, Paris) it advertised 90k euros base salary. Not sure how they’re intending to compete with the US when even a top AI lab can’t afford to be competitive :-/

There's more to life than money past a certain point, I'd rather live in the Alps on a lower salary.

Re: Mistral raises €3B

#170
post #136
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been using LLMs for two year. It's not just this week's LLM release that is capable something.

It's not this week's change. Fable was the step change for programming. And most of truly useful and powerful capabilities arrived in the last eight months.

If the choice is between Mistral and no AI, I'll take Mistral any day

Even those old llama models were ok for coding

Yes yes they won't be like Claude's fire and forget (until you see how many tokens you burned to write "Hello World")

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