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GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

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Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#41

Post by rickdeckard »

jeffbee wrote: post #27
rickdeckard wrote: post #11

Thanks for the write-up, it reflects my own impression of the video. The video is quite a mixed set of topics mangled together, which is a pity because IMO a cleaner separation would be more beneficial to get the point across. They should have decided to set the focus on a specific area and then present every finding around that, i.e.: 1. The Ad data-collecting platform TV-manufacturers are operating, what data they…

Yeah if GN wants to keep my attention on this topic they need to edit out all the stuff about normal Wi-Fi stack behaviors and normal local device discovery behaviors. They didn't need to pad their feature-length video with these non-issues.

And how they asked the device for voice-input for a websearch via the UI, and the device proceeded to perform voice transcription, filling the searchbox with everything that was said...

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#42

Post by rickdeckard »

pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

True, but rooting the device de-facto means breaking the trust-chain of the OS.

The inevitable outcome of this video is that TV vendors are pushed to harden the security and preserve the trust-chain, because part of the (valid) claim is that nefarious actors may break the security to use the device for spying on you.

With support from an actual journalist, it could be reframed to also emphasize the importance of controlled root-access to monitor and control the devices behavior.

But none of this was done unfortunately, and if I'm LG I don't want to see another video where someone reframes user-initiated voice-input for a web-search as spying initiative by showing some device-logs of the transcription process in parallel...

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#43

Post by rickdeckard »

Retr0id wrote: post #26
rickdeckard wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yup. I'm sitting on one that doesn't even require an internet connection, only RF down the TV antenna input. I'm waiting for my model to go EOL before I release it. So no responsible disclosure, I see. Not knowing any more details, it still sounds like you'd still need the user to tune to the actual frequency on the correct receiver (to cause some buffer overflow?). But then still there's no internet to do anything…

> So no responsible disclosure, I see. Huh?

You stated that you're "sitting on one that doesn't even require an internet connection [..] I'm waiting for my model to go EOL before I release it"

I read this as "Wait until the model is EOL, hoping it won't be disclosed and fixed until then and also not fixed afterwards"

Is this not what you meant to say?

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#45

Post by like_any_other »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #35
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

I know people here do not want to hear it, but it is a very two-sided sword. Of course root allows you to tinker with your device and make it run what you want, but: - Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. As shown in the video: How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)? - Re-sel…

> How do you know that TV you bought is untampered?

Many rooted devices display during boot a warning that they have been rooted. This is a problem that has been solved for more than a decade, but manufacturers pretend not to know the solution, because they are actively hostile to user freedom.

> How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)?

Let's pretend there aren't plenty other ways they could spy on you. If it's bad if a hotel does it, why is it okay if LG does it? Do you honestly trust LG, and the thousands of "partners" that they sell your data to, and every government whose warrants they have to honor?

Your argument reduces to "if the warden lets us out of our jail cells, who will make sure we behave?"

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#46

Post by cryptonym »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #35
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

I know people here do not want to hear it, but it is a very two-sided sword. Of course root allows you to tinker with your device and make it run what you want, but: - Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. As shown in the video: How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)? - Re-sel…

With an on premise device, the game is already lost. They may plant a separate mic device inside the TV, or elsewhere. Rooted TV doesn't really impact BnB security model.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#47

Post by stuaxo »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #20

I think the author took the wrong message from the video. His arguments are all - yes everyone does this not just lg; :) - yes it can be used to track the user; but unless you literally go into lg ads hq, you can’t say they don’t - they rooted to trigger this; well the os and system apps don’t need root, we need it to observe. If the author is here please consider these as the reasons to why an LG customer would be m…

It's such a bad take.

It's either a deliberately contrary or the author has other motives (which may sound ridiculous, but we know that bad actors have been paying people for bad takes for years - Malcolm Gladwell for instance being paid by oil and gas).

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#48

Post by hypfer »

Semi-OT, possibly interesting:

Maintaining enemy lists like the one of Drew linked there has been illegal in Germany since 2021 as part of the government's (very necessary!) efforts against hate crimes and right-wing extremism.

Or at least that's my understanding of the law there. Maybe it's exempt based on technicalities.

In any case, I can in many cases emotionally relate to why he is doing that, but.. oof.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#49

Post by stuaxo »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #38
newsclues wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fresh account defending a corporation.

1. Ad hominem. 2. No, LG is not perfect here and their TVs are bloated as fuck and they do questionable things privacy-wise. However, that still does not mean that they listen on every conversation, as shown in the video. That nuance is important if you value good journalism. Otherwise if we're just our here throwing random allegations because "corp bad", might as well say LG 's TVs are turning the frickin' frogs gay…

It's not just questionable things, its using dark patterns to do things that wouldn't stand up in court because they definitely illegal in places with data protection laws.

Sorry but such contrary takes in the face of this sort of evidence are either contrary for the sake of it or paid astroturfing.

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