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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#841

Post by cuu508 »

charcircuit wrote: post #638
Animats wrote: post #571

Here are LG's contract terms for appliances.[1] They are awful. Not only can they listen in. You have a contractual requirement to tell everyone in range of an appliance that they may be eavesdropped upon. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members…

It just reads as legal boilerplate. How else can voice recognition listen for a wake word without being able to process everything it hears.

> 8. I understand that LGE will retain the collected Voice Information for 6 months to fulfil the purposes for which we collected it, and after this period, it will be deleted or anonymized, depending on the case.

Somehow feels like it might be used for more than just wake word detection.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#842

Post by rossy »

ppbbii wrote: post #378
rossy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, as an advertising company, Google should have your utmost scrutiny. But as far as I know, their TV boxes don't ACR your content. If they were the only two options, sticking with your smart TV software instead of using a Google TV box would be a privacy mistake.

Typically you will get sambatv or such installed, and technicians for whatever reason tend to click accept/approve during installations. Happened to me n my Google TV thing

Tbf I was talking about first-party Google TV boxes (Google TV Streamer and Chromecast with Google TV.) Likely not perfect for privacy, but not pure evil like built-in smart TV firmware, they support sideloading without time limits, alternative app stores (Flicky/F-Droid) and they're friends/family/roommate/partner friendly with support for DRM-ed streaming apps, Chromecast and pairing with the official YouTube app.

I chose one over the Apple TV because I knew I wouldn't able to stand any limitations on sideloading. For a while I was running a custom build of Wholphin with patched libmpv/libplacebo to work around a bug before the fix was upstreamed. A device without the freedom to do that sort of thing would drive me nuts.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#843

Post by 1659447091 »

neilv wrote: post #360

> During bench tests, they found the TV could capture clean microphone audio while the screen was (or at least looked to be) powered down in standby mode. When the team disconnected the TV from Ethernet, the set continued saving voice input locally and uploaded the stored files once network access was restored. Lawyers: If it is true that the company is secretly recording voices when the device appears to be off, and…

Not a lawyer, but two-party consent states make it illegal to record conversations without both parties knowing.

dont know if that means if the tv has 2pt text disclosing the recording in the middle of a multi-language manual and agreeing to plug the tv into power counts as consent or if it even covers tv devices/usage

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#844

Post by JoshTriplett »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #722
JoshTriplett wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly.

> Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly. I disagree with this as stated. Maybe in the right context you could make a case for it, but in general? Heck no. Intent matters a great deal, and there is no justice in treating someone incompetent (or negligent) the same as someone who is actually malicious. Both things are bad, but the latter is worse than the…

In the context of a company doing something like this, intent does not matter in the slightest.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#845

Post by nosioptar »

mitxela wrote: post #703
tosti wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got lucky. If you've got an apartment in, say, a healthcare facility, they'll install those thermostats and whatnot. Usually the neighbours are clueless about technology so complaining doesn't get very far at all. It's even worse if some staff wrote paranoid in your file, 'cause they'll argue it's good for "exposure".

You mean if you are permanently resident in a mental institute they don't let you control the temperature? That's hardly surprising...

I read it more as a senior living facility.

Those folks pay out the effing nose, they ought to be allowed to control the temp in their apartment.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#846

Post by dfxm12 »

sbarre wrote: post #558
rpdillon wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar reaction from folks when I don't trust services/devices. Most telling moment was when I refused to upload my license to LinkedIn because I lost 2FA (token on phone, phone destroyed). Microsoft assured me they would "delete the license as soon as it was verified". I've written too many software systems for too many companies, and I do not believe them . Of course, they'd outsourced to AU10TIX, which d…

> my conclusion after dealing with them for many years is they will lie, cheat, and steal to get whatever they want Honestly, it's not even that extreme in most cases. I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. That's why I don't trust big companies with my data. Nothing to do with some CEO's evil plans, but more to do with the hundreds/thousands of mid-level "not my job" or "doing my best" workers who are a…

It's probably both, vis a vis negligence. I just wish it was treated as criminal negligence. This will continue as long as CEO's face no real punishment for mishandling PII.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#847

Post by charcircuit »

cuu508 wrote: post #841
charcircuit wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just reads as legal boilerplate. How else can voice recognition listen for a wake word without being able to process everything it hears.

> 8. I understand that LGE will retain the collected Voice Information for 6 months to fulfil the purposes for which we collected it, and after this period, it will be deleted or anonymized, depending on the case. Somehow feels like it might be used for more than just wake word detection.

It's normal for home assistants to save what you said after the wake word.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#848

Post by adithyassekhar »

bbor wrote: post #818
adithyassekhar wrote: post #791

> They also found where the microphone was software disabled via settings, it was STILL recording things but had the dB level so low that it looked like nothing but when amplified to +50dB later the conversations were actually still there.

Can someone confirm this part of it? I'm highly, highly dubious that these TVs are sending back random ambient conversation -- for one thing, it would be a truly monstrously-huge stream of data, no? I certainly believe that it sends back data when you use voice commands, ofc (both for advertising and product improvement). But this would be the first real case of something that's been a 100% false conspiracy theory fo…

It is in the video at 36:40 https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA?t=2199

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#849

Post by toomuchtodo »

spockz wrote: post #405
ungreased0675 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to send vast amounts of garbage data to the LG servers. They aren’t being respectful of our bandwidth and data, we don’t need to be respectful of theirs. This also applies incentives in the correct direction. Their database of customer information becomes less valuable if there’s bad information in it. Disconnecting your TV from the internet doesn’t affect LG, feeding them bad data does.

I like this enough to actually considering buying one to get it to identify the endpoints. Maybe better to see first if we can find it in the firmware update downloads.

Have Claude or Astra reverse engineer the firmware?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#850

Post by bbor »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #848
bbor wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone confirm this part of it? I'm highly, highly dubious that these TVs are sending back random ambient conversation -- for one thing, it would be a truly monstrously-huge stream of data, no? I certainly believe that it sends back data when you use voice commands, ofc (both for advertising and product improvement). But this would be the first real case of something that's been a 100% false conspiracy theory fo…

It is in the video at 36:40 https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA?t=2199

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