American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals • Hacker News Board

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#71

Post by helmut_hed » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:49 PM UTC

koralatov wrote: post #40

bmmayer1 wrote: post #22

As a member of Generation Y, it is hard to have much sympathy for the "plight" of GenY compared to pretty much any other generation in world history. We haven't been drafted into foreign wars or had to suffer through a real depression. A third of us didn't die in an influenza epidemic. Our women and minorities haven't had to face entrenched and legally immovable workplace discrimination. We have had to face no real l…

Not that I'm defending grumblers, but I think a lot of the upset and anger comes from the fact that the opportunities aren't as readily available as they once were. The developed world is a much more regimented place than it once was, with fewer employers will to take chances on the people they employ. The classic trap a lot of Gen Y find themselves in is that they're not considered for jobs because they don't have e…

The classic trap ... is that they're not considered for jobs because they don't have experience, and can't get experience because they can't get the jobs

This has always been a problem and IMO the solution in previous generations was that a time came when the job market was tight and companies just had to hire somebody, so they were willing to take a chance. Or people at the top had retired, and everybody moved up, and there was some slack in the budget, so they brought some new grads on board. With a persistently weak economy and people delaying their retirement, both effects are getting suppressed.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#72

Post by helmut_hed » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:51 PM UTC

tarr11 wrote: post #41

This looks like an example of "Software Eating the World". http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190348090457651... Many law firms are doing automated textual analysis of legal work that used to be done by associates. The fact that they are still making more profit implies that they've just gotten more efficient. I suppose that there are a set of legal software companies that are probably profiting pretty well…

"Textual analysis" also sounds like the sort of thing that could be profitably outsourced. I understand that in the medical world, reviewing medical images may now be done by qualified technicians in lower-wage countries.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#73

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:52 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #51

I'm so sick of hearing about how bad we--us poor, lost kids from Generation Y--have it. I'm so sick of hearing about the odds, about the unemployment rate, about how everything's our fault because we're too entitled, or about how nothing's our fault because the economy you see. I live in a rented house with several other young folks trying to get by in our industry. I'm working today instead of taking a bus home to s…

That's nice. A lot of my former college friends are on food stamps, and workaholism is no dream of mine.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#74

Post by macspoofing » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:53 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #51

I'm so sick of hearing about how bad we--us poor, lost kids from Generation Y--have it. I'm so sick of hearing about the odds, about the unemployment rate, about how everything's our fault because we're too entitled, or about how nothing's our fault because the economy you see. I live in a rented house with several other young folks trying to get by in our industry. I'm working today instead of taking a bus home to s…

Everything you wrote reinforces the article.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#75

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:54 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #59

Permit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An exercise in trading anecdotes isn't going to get anyone anywhere. The fact that the people you've surrounded yourself are relatively well off does not offset problems surrounding unemployment and falling wages.

I got the impression that GPs point was that the American Dream is about improving ones own fate (especially when the environment is hard) rather than complaining about unemployment and wages.

Great. Then obviously we should make life even harder for the masses so they can achieve even more glory from overcoming the even more overwhelming odds. And if they fail, they deserve what's coming to them!

/sarcasm

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#76

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 7:56 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #5

tokenadult wrote: post #3

From the article: "Three and a half years after the worst recession since the Great Depression, the earnings and employment gap between those in the under-35 population and their parents and grandparents threatens to unravel the American dream of each generation doing better than the last." There have been many postings to Hacker News recently with similar themes. The situation described increasingly looks like the s…

> I support United States policies that move in the direction of east Asian rather than western European patterns of government spending and social welfare This is going to be very difficult to pull off without a massive cultural change. The Confucian influence on East Asian culture has resulted in a much higher degree of filial piety (孝) than in the West, which makes it possible for people to live in old age without…

I'm pretty sure this is a foregone conclusion. There's simply no way around the math other than increasing the retirement age. If you go back 50 or 100 years, people didn't sit around for 20 or 30 years after retiring doing nothing - they simply died earlier. So if you're going to live until 80 or 90, you'd better work until at least 75.

If you go back 50 or 100 years, productivity-per-hour was a tiny fraction of what it is today. Why do we decree by fiat that everyone has a moral obligation which we will enforce via the economic system to spend at least half their waking hours working for most of their lifespan?

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#77

Post by Daniel_Newby » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 8:01 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #25

w1ntermute wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious - are you postulating that the only way to cause poorer students to improve their educational outcomes is via peer effects with richer students? What I'm really postulating that the only way to improve the educational outcomes of students that come from families who don't emphasize education is to surround them with students who come from families that do emphasize education. So my initial statement ass…

This idea also brings up a moral question - how do you justify forcing children of the rich to suffer in order to counteract the bad parenting habits of the poor?

The poor are poor because they have an average IQ in the 80s, barely above mental retardation. Their children are the same way because it is genetic. The school busing amd integration programs are about political subjugation of the high class, not assistance to the lower class.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#78

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 8:04 PM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #22

As a member of Generation Y, it is hard to have much sympathy for the "plight" of GenY compared to pretty much any other generation in world history. We haven't been drafted into foreign wars or had to suffer through a real depression. A third of us didn't die in an influenza epidemic. Our women and minorities haven't had to face entrenched and legally immovable workplace discrimination. We have had to face no real l…

I mean, it's now considered normal (and even a human right by some) to take 2-3 weeks vacation every year.

Feudal peasants didn't work for months at a time each year.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#79

Post by w1ntermute » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 8:05 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #67

w1ntermute wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because you don't die before you're 90 doesn't mean you can work any longer than your grandparents did Why not? People are healthier than ever before, and are working jobs that require much less physical endurance. > even assuming somebody still wants to employ you Again, if you're living longer, your usefulness is decaying at a slower rate.

>Why not? People are healthier than ever before... There's no evidence this is true. You realize in the US 30% of the population is obese and almost 10% of us have diabetes, right? >...and are working jobs that require much less physical endurance. Right, because sitting at a desk for forty years is the key to good health. >Again, if you're living longer, your usefulness is decaying at a slower rate. And again, there…

> You realize in the US 30% of the population is obese and almost 10% of us have diabetes, right?

Those people are probably going to die at 60-70 y/o anyway.

And besides, that's self-inflicted. Once people realize that it's preventing them from reaching their full lifespan, they'll change if they want to. And if they don't, well, I'm not gonna complain if I get better retirement benefits as a result.

> Right, because sitting at a desk for forty years is the key to good health.

Once again, this is largely self-inflicted. You can stay relatively healthy while working a desk job. Stop buying junk food and get a gym membership. Try getting up and walking a bit during your workday - take a stroll outside during lunch. You can certainly be healthier than people were 50 years ago working at a car factory.

> And again, there's no reason to believe this is true.

There's no reason to believe it isn't true. Society has just accepted that people have to stop working at 65. Why not try increasing the retirement age gradually and see what happens? People don't suddenly lose the ability to work when they turn 65.

Re: American Dream Fades for Generation Y Professionals

#80

Post by eropple » Sun, Dec 23, 2012, 8:16 PM UTC

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #77

yummyfajitas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea also brings up a moral question - how do you justify forcing children of the rich to suffer in order to counteract the bad parenting habits of the poor?

The poor are poor because they have an average IQ in the 80s, barely above mental retardation. Their children are the same way because it is genetic. The school busing amd integration programs are about political subjugation of the high class, not assistance to the lower class.

Demonstrably untrue and profoundly disturbed.