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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#711

Post by kulahan »

hn_submit wrote: post #299
touwer wrote: post #139

Funny, published on a site with 1745 'partners' who fully respect our privacy of course

I believe we should push for legislation that prohibits the sale of customer data to third parties. Websites can use the data on their customers but they cannot share it with anyone else. Because aggregators are selling it cross-border after which you lose track and all control over it.

There was an American presidential candidate who ran on the platform of Americans getting to own their data and privacy like property in... 2016? I think? Agree with it or not, he was pretty forward-thinking at least.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#712

Post by torben-friis »

FractalParadigm wrote: post #572
godelski wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, the first few minutes of the video suggests it captures your neighbors' device and IP information. I'm sure the ToS has some BS about you being required to inform any guests, but what if your TV is just recording your neighbors because they are close enough? Just wait, I'm sure the "solution" will be that TVs start displaying reminders that you're being recorded... Is our inability to innovate in tech…

Re. The last paragraph, that's what confuses me the most about all of this. LG has virtually held a monopoly of the entire OLED TV market for the past ~15 years, selling (arguably) one of the TVs on the market and being the only thing I've recommended people buy in about as long. They could have done literally nothing but update the hardware every other year with a newer SoC, HDMI version, etc. and done just fine. No…

>It's insane that there's more profit in duping your users to spy on them and sell their data/information, than there is just making and selling a great product.

And it feels like an inflationary behavior: people need marketing because the product doesn't sell itself because it is neglected in favor of data collection and marketing that is needed because GOTO 1.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#713

Post by nerevarthelame »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #281
wavesplash wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the video the article is based on - not connecting to the internet doesn't keep you safe in many cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA

This is because they rooted the TV. They can just start a capture, record to RAM / storage, and retrieve it later when it is reconnected to the network. Otherwise if it's disconnected, it is still hard to exfiltrate the data somewhere. Maybe they could get creative via Bluetooth, but then you would need a cooperating device in proximity of the device.

I think the main risk is that if you - or your kids, or your spouse, or a guest, or someone you give/sell the TV to - do connect the TV to the Internet for even a moment years from now, then all those logs you wanted to keep away from LG are likely to delivered.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#714

Post by ungreased0675 »

taylorfinley wrote: post #647
ungreased0675 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to send vast amounts of garbage data to the LG servers. They aren’t being respectful of our bandwidth and data, we don’t need to be respectful of theirs. This also applies incentives in the correct direction. Their database of customer information becomes less valuable if there’s bad information in it. Disconnecting your TV from the internet doesn’t affect LG, feeding them bad data does.

I have just launched http://weowntheglass.com , it features an oled-safe screensaver steady stream of public domain images of violent uprisings against an oppressive class. The ACR should enjoy that!

What if it was a quick succession of screenshots from actual TV shows? Random pictures probably don’t have any ACR match but TV shows would.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#715

Post by selcuka »

mitxela wrote: post #662
empyrrhicist wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can that kind of clause really be enforceable? It really doesn't seem legal in any jurisdiction I'm aware of. (not a lawyer)

LG probably can't sue you for failing to get consent from a guest, but the guest can sue you, not LG, for being recorded.

LG's purpose is to avoid being sued by the guest, not to be able to sue the customer.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#716

Post by selcuka »

sbarre wrote: post #639
andrepd wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my French but bull-fucking-shit! A CEO _should_ take responsibility for what their subordinates do. It's preposterous to simple throw up our arms and say "oh well, some employees were sloppy so we lost some 100 million user IDs and other sensitive information that we promised not to store but we lied. Oopsie, silly me, pardon my wee incompetence tee-hee". No no no NO NO! At some level, and certainly at the lev…

Uhh. I think you misread my comment pretty badly here. I am not making excuses for anyone. I am saying that it's less likely to be some evil machination that led to the misuse of my data and more likely to be negligence or incompetence. Both are inexcusable, but one is more common/likely than the other. You can certainly link them together and yes leaders should be held responsible no matter what, but from my perspec…

> I am saying that it's less likely to be some evil machination that led to the misuse of my data and more likely to be negligence or incompetence.

Not being held accountable for negligence or incompetence is the evil machination.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#717

Post by selcuka »

DPDmancul wrote: post #442
ryandrake wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to climb two very difficult hills for there to be any change here: 1. We need our governments to actually start charging companies with crimes, when what they are doing would be illegal for an individual to do, and 2. We need the penalties to be something other than fines, which are ultimately treated by companies as routine costs of business.

> We need the penalties to be something other than fines, which are ultimately treated by companies as routine costs of business. It's true that fines are nothing more than predictable costs, so maybe an option would be fines in percentage of the incoming of the company: this way it could make a real impact. I know in some north Europe countries the speed limit fines are in percentage on the personal net worth.

> maybe an option would be fines in percentage of the incoming of the company

You are overengineering it. Just throw the CEOs in jail for a few months and observe how these practices disappear overnight.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#718

Post by toofy »

recurseP wrote: post #209
Anoian wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respect for the consumer has long been gone generally except for a few brands. I am still wondering why consumer respecting brands are not emerging more and thriving.

The point is: which brands still respect user privacy? If I were to buy a new TV today, which brands-models should I prioritize? Also, are there brands-models that in which it is possible to sideload a different OS like with mobile phones (LineageOS, GrapheneOS, etc.)

> which brands still respect user privacy?

does anyone know of a reputable site which rates companies by things such as trustworthiness?

are any companies at all trustworthy anymore? like literally any?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#719

Post by bigstrat2003 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #618
sbarre wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my conclusion after dealing with them for many years is they will lie, cheat, and steal to get whatever they want Honestly, it's not even that extreme in most cases. I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. That's why I don't trust big companies with my data. Nothing to do with some CEO's evil plans, but more to do with the hundreds/thousands of mid-level "not my job" or "doing my best" workers who are a…

> I think it's usually not malice, it's incompetence. Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly.

> Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated accordingly.

I disagree with this as stated. Maybe in the right context you could make a case for it, but in general? Heck no. Intent matters a great deal, and there is no justice in treating someone incompetent (or negligent) the same as someone who is actually malicious. Both things are bad, but the latter is worse than the former even if they lead to the same outcome.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#720

Post by vikarti »

josuepeq wrote: post #433
korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

It’s okay to be a luddite. Not everything needs to have an interface. Got into a spat with a manager at my apartment complex because I refused to install their app just to deal with a maintenance issue. He was like, “I don’t see the problem, you have to use the Latch app to open your apartment door.” To which I replied, “No, I have the door keypad code memorized.” Just like I don’t need an app to make a log of exit/e…

Does this app work on GrapheneOS? LineageOS? Android betas? Who will troubleshoot issues if it doesn't?
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