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Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

theguardian.com

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Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#171

Post by b112 »

naishoya wrote: post #148
b112 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you levitate from the place you remove your shoes?

No, you actually step out of your shoes an up to a wooden platform which shoes never trod. And yes, the top and even many middle level dining establishments in Japan actually do require guests to leave their street shoes in an entry way, called a Genkan. Nobody steps with their socks onto shoe trodden surface. It's not a complicated but of geometry, you loosen your foot in the shoes to make them ready for stepping ou…

I don't know. That other fellow had a point about the toothbrush. And if that's true, surely some filth is getting in, right?

I mean, dirt moves on its own. Bacteria moves, and dirt comes with them.

After all, how do you even know your soap is clean?

https://www.today.com/health/recall/hand-soap-recall-2025-rc...

And the recall was for deadly bacteria. Probably a growth medium too. Modern soap has lots of ingredients, each could be dirty at source.

So if your soap is dirty, how can your feet be clean?

I'm still not convinced.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#172

Post by cromka »

makeitdouble wrote: post #121
cromka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that it's a good example where politeness and respect ingrained in society can be taken a step too far. I don't want my rescuers waste 30-45s on taking shoes off and after I had a stroke and minutes decide whether or not I ended up with a permanent brain damage...

TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s. There's photos in the article, those aren't dress shoes with laces to be done and undone, they're fit for the purpose. Also in cases where it's really dire they'll just step in with shoes on, it's just extremely rare and it might actually be another team altogether, operating under a different protocol.

Shoes on in 2s? So 1s per shoe?

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#173

Post by samus »

b112 wrote: post #171
naishoya wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you actually step out of your shoes an up to a wooden platform which shoes never trod. And yes, the top and even many middle level dining establishments in Japan actually do require guests to leave their street shoes in an entry way, called a Genkan. Nobody steps with their socks onto shoe trodden surface. It's not a complicated but of geometry, you loosen your foot in the shoes to make them ready for stepping ou…

I don't know. That other fellow had a point about the toothbrush. And if that's true, surely some filth is getting in, right? I mean, dirt moves on its own. Bacteria moves, and dirt comes with them. After all, how do you even know your soap is clean? https://www.today.com/health/recall/hand-soap-recall-2025-rc... And the recall was for deadly bacteria. Probably a growth medium too. Modern soap has lots of ingredients…

The toothbrush is a moot point if you have a separate be bathroom and toilet. If they are combined the spread of fecal particles is curbed by flushing the toilet with closed lid. And in the end the toothbrush is flushed before using and then coated with toothpaste, which often contains detergents and microbial agenda, and which is finally flushed out.

I don't think you can conclude from that incident that all soap is always contaminated. And even if it's not perfectly clean, in the end ist's all flushed away.

I don't really get what your point is. Are you regularly eating from the pedestrian way?

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#174

Post by yarnover »

fakedang wrote: post #166
tomasGiden wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also try to teach my children to be careful with books but beating a child surely cannot be the the right way. If we adults strike children for them treating possessions badly, are we then not saying that they are less worthy of good treatment than possessions? That would be deeply humiliating to me. And I highly doubt that, in general, 'whacking' children will make them grow up kinder more compassionate adults.

It was a different time and age, which is why I'll excuse her. Today, I would go full retard even on my own parents if they did that with my children (and rightly so).

What a contemptible phrase to use.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#175

Post by tdeck »

Aerroon wrote: post #156
tdeck wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in Japan not only take their shoes off at home, but also in many other places as well. Most elementary schools and many doctors offices, eye doctors, etc.. have you take your shoes off, although it varies from place to place. Some restaurants require you to take your shoes off. I once visited a radio station and they took their shoes off there too for some reason (no, I don't believe it was ESD related). So pe…

> I once visited a radio station and they took their shoes off there too for some reason (no, I don't believe it was ESD related). Isn't it reasonable/normal to take shoes off at work and put on indoor does like sandals or similar ("work shoes")? Obviously it depends on the job, but it seems reasonable to me at a radio station. And if the regular employees are wearing indoor shoes, then it might become normal for out…

I don't have an opinion about whether it's reasonable, but in the U.S. I have never seen it. Maybe in a daycare. And people wear street shoes in many offices in Japan.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#176

Post by lemmetellya »

fakedang wrote: post #166
tomasGiden wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also try to teach my children to be careful with books but beating a child surely cannot be the the right way. If we adults strike children for them treating possessions badly, are we then not saying that they are less worthy of good treatment than possessions? That would be deeply humiliating to me. And I highly doubt that, in general, 'whacking' children will make them grow up kinder more compassionate adults.

It was a different time and age, which is why I'll excuse her. Today, I would go full retard even on my own parents if they did that with my children (and rightly so).

[dead]

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#177

Post by b112 »

samus wrote: post #173
b112 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. That other fellow had a point about the toothbrush. And if that's true, surely some filth is getting in, right? I mean, dirt moves on its own. Bacteria moves, and dirt comes with them. After all, how do you even know your soap is clean? https://www.today.com/health/recall/hand-soap-recall-2025-rc... And the recall was for deadly bacteria. Probably a growth medium too. Modern soap has lots of ingredients…

The toothbrush is a moot point if you have a separate be bathroom and toilet. If they are combined the spread of fecal particles is curbed by flushing the toilet with closed lid. And in the end the toothbrush is flushed before using and then coated with toothpaste, which often contains detergents and microbial agenda, and which is finally flushed out. I don't think you can conclude from that incident that all soap is…

My point was that you seemed incredibly positive that Japan houses o'clean, and the rest of the world is as apes, in caves, picking parasites off of each others backs.

This obsession with shoes, doesn't cover the fly droppings, the dirt upon clothing, and the fact that your body is always covered in bacteria, your gut filled with bacteria, your lunch covered in it if you ever eat fresh greens, you will die without bacteria.

I'm not suggesting you walk around with dirty shoes, that's silly. Yet I feel you are a city dweller, because the world is made of dirt, and a rural farm worker spends all day in it.

To no harm to the worker.

Dirt is natural. Concrete is not.

So my point was just, you seemed a little upset at dirt.

After all:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49608023

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#178

Post by pvaldes »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #75
wodenokoto wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can roughly split paramedic visits into “patient needs to get out ASAP” and patient can’t get out alone or with help of friends and family”, so I would hope they keep their shoes on for the first type. But ambulances in with full sirens begging over their speaker-system to have pedestrians at Shibuya crossing let the vehicle through, is probably the worst thing about Japan. As for your second question, I’m…

I've known enough people who worked in EMS to know that it's very common for there to be little alignment between 1a)what the dispatcher is told 1b)what comes from dispatcher 2)what they see when they walk in the door and 3)what the person actually needs.

True fact.

Relatives in an emergency often act irrationally. I heard of an old case where a man suffered a heart stroke, and his child was ordered to phone rescuers. The boy ran to the nearest phone booth, said "my father is very ill, we need an ambulance" and hang the phone. He never said where. The ambulance roamed around trying to guess the address of the emergency, but when they found the family in the street it was an hour later and the man was dead.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#179

Post by samus »

b112 wrote: post #177
samus wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The toothbrush is a moot point if you have a separate be bathroom and toilet. If they are combined the spread of fecal particles is curbed by flushing the toilet with closed lid. And in the end the toothbrush is flushed before using and then coated with toothpaste, which often contains detergents and microbial agenda, and which is finally flushed out. I don't think you can conclude from that incident that all soap is…

My point was that you seemed incredibly positive that Japan houses o'clean, and the rest of the world is as apes, in caves, picking parasites off of each others backs. This obsession with shoes, doesn't cover the fly droppings, the dirt upon clothing, and the fact that your body is always covered in bacteria, your gut filled with bacteria, your lunch covered in it if you ever eat fresh greens, you will die without ba…

I just don't get why you treat this as something super complicated. There is street and nature level dirt which contains an unknowable degree of contamination that can be unambiguously bad for you if you ingest it, no matter what that BBC article says, and the inside areas where people eat and sleep. The vast majority of cultures prefer to maintain that separation and to maintain a considerably higher level of cleanliness in the living areas, no matter if it's not at semiconductor fab level.

Specific to Japanese culture is just that they prefer to sit at low tables and to sleep on the ground on duvets; it should be easy to see why they want less dirt on the ground than other cultures.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#180

Post by b112 »

samus wrote: post #179
b112 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that you seemed incredibly positive that Japan houses o'clean, and the rest of the world is as apes, in caves, picking parasites off of each others backs. This obsession with shoes, doesn't cover the fly droppings, the dirt upon clothing, and the fact that your body is always covered in bacteria, your gut filled with bacteria, your lunch covered in it if you ever eat fresh greens, you will die without ba…

I just don't get why you treat this as something super complicated. There is street and nature level dirt which contains an unknowable degree of contamination that can be unambiguously bad for you if you ingest it, no matter what that BBC article says, and the inside areas where people eat and sleep. The vast majority of cultures prefer to maintain that separation and to maintain a considerably higher level of cleanl…

naishoya was fairly damning of all other methods of living, so naturally I'll be quite overt in my response. And almost everyone was a farmer until the last 100+ years. The only way to generate enough food, without machinery, was for all to take part in its creation.

People were more used to having hands in dirt. That doesn't mean unclean, but I do find all city dwellers more "fussy" about dirt. They take traditions made for pragmatism (keep dirt off the floor, eg tidiness), and evolve it to fussiness(eg, contaminated).

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