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Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

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Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#191

Post by kdidjsidjejd »

everyone wrote: post #54
muppetman wrote: post #28

As a Windows user for years until 2 years ago, I can’t believe how unusable finder is. It’s just terrible. I feel like it actively hides the filesystem from you at every turn. Windows was bad but at least Explorer (windows 10 version anyway) let you easily SEE the file system I’m sure as hell not buying a subscription project to fix that though lololol

Imo tech companies want people to be as tech-illiterate as possible. Tech illiterate people will not realise how the tech company did extra work to make their product less capable and less empowering to the user in favour of being more beneficial and empowering to the tech company itself. Obfuscating the file system has been a popular move in this regard. A file system is so elegant and empowering and useful for so m…

You greybeard wannabes all have a serious problem: you think tech is made for you and for you alone.

Once computers became accessible beyond the hobbyist, enthusiast or professional it became a necessity to guarantee that those people that click on anything they are told to click cannot break their computers simply working the file explorar app.

It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.

You can still do whatever you want with your file system. Except that if you want to break into it and mess with it, you have to actually know what you are doing.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#192

Post by wrs »

dTal wrote: post #169
wrs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Weird for the sake of being weird”…you know Finder existed first , right?

Not true by any stretch, though parent didn't mention any competitor MacOS's current Finder dates from 2001. Earlier versions of "Finder" were a completely different piece of software - different code, different interface, different UI metaphor. File manager software predating it: Windows Explorer GNOME/Nautilus KDE/Konqueror X11/xfm (X File Manager) sundry proprietary Unix workstations All of the above interfaces sh…

We’re talking about the UI here, not the binary executable. Finder was extensively reworked in 2001 from the file manager in NeXT to be much closer to the original Finder, and most of the complaints here are about UI decisions taken from the original Finder, released in 1984. That predates Windows (not just Windows Explorer, which is from ten years later), Nautilus (created by Andy Hertzfeld of the original Mac team to be like Finder!), and the Unix variants, even the venerable xfm, which dates from the early 1990s.

The PARC interface (by which I guess you mean the Xerox Star) had significant differences, and I think would confuse any modern computer user far worse than the Finder. The Lisa was closer to the Star but the Mac used a simplified model that just equated files to icons.

Source: I lived through this process and used all of these for actual work at some point. The Finder’s influence on GUI file management was rather like the iPhone’s influence on phone management.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#193

Post by [deleted] »

snsisnwjxnwjd wrote: post #190
x2tyfi wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option, if you already have terminal open, is to drag the file/folder from Finder into your terminal window. The path will be pasted there.

Yep. Many different options available. Seems to me most complaining about finder haven’t actually bothered to give it the benefit of the learning-curve they’ve given to other file managers. Explorer is so far behind Finder it’s ridiculous, yet people somehow think it is better? C’mon.

[deleted]

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#194

Post by 8note »

mrheosuper wrote: post #155
pupppet wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To Apple, files are an unsightly thing they need to sweep under the carpet, if you have to interact with files they probably believe they’ve done something wrong. Look at Apple Mail, they used to bury attachments behind a button and even now they just drop them at the end of the email.

> if you have to interact with files they probably believe they’ve done something wrong. So it's wrong to be power user using mac.

shouldnt a mac power user be the best at never touching a file?

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#195

Post by NinjaTrance »

klodolph wrote: post #134
jakevoytko wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my instant reaction when I started using a Mac. But 15 years later, even knowing more tricks for interacting with it, it still baffles me. Once you've used Windows Explorer and a few Linux distro navigators, there's no denying that Finder is unquestionably worst in class.

As a Mac user since the 1980s, I feel feel like Finder is easily best in class, even after ten or fifteen years of design. I would describe Windows Explorer as “embarrassingly bad” in comparison, despite having a good hold on the shortcuts. I honestly think it is a matter of what you like rather than what is good or bad.

> As a Mac user since the 1980s, I feel feel like Finder is easily best in class

Once internal muscle memory is established, the usability problems can be easily dismissed; but for the rest of us, who got used to better file managers, Finder is atrocious.

As a Windows user in the 90s, Linux user in the 2000s, and Mac user since the 2010s, I dread the moments when I have to use Finder.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#196

Post by NinjaTrance »

raffraffraff wrote: post #44
muppetman wrote: post #28

As a Windows user for years until 2 years ago, I can’t believe how unusable finder is. It’s just terrible. I feel like it actively hides the filesystem from you at every turn. Windows was bad but at least Explorer (windows 10 version anyway) let you easily SEE the file system I’m sure as hell not buying a subscription project to fix that though lololol

I'll take any file browser over finder. In fact, I hate the whole MacOS UI but I can mostly ignore the problems with Karabiner, Hammerspoon and Rectangle.

I hate MacOS UI.

Red/yellow/green buttons to close(?)/minimize(?)/maximize(?) windows are usability hell.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#197

Post by NinjaTrance »

peanball wrote: post #63
maltch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explorer is a much better tool than Finder. Couldn't agree more.

And yet copying multiple large files from or to the same disk grinds the throughput to a halt on Windows where Finder keeps up close to theoretical bandwidth in sum.

Mac (the hardware) is amazing.

MacOS (the OS) is much better than Windows.

But MacOS (the user interface) is worse than Windows (or even Linux).

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#198

Post by NinjaTrance »

wrs wrote: post #192
dTal wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true by any stretch, though parent didn't mention any competitor MacOS's current Finder dates from 2001. Earlier versions of "Finder" were a completely different piece of software - different code, different interface, different UI metaphor. File manager software predating it: Windows Explorer GNOME/Nautilus KDE/Konqueror X11/xfm (X File Manager) sundry proprietary Unix workstations All of the above interfaces sh…

We’re talking about the UI here, not the binary executable. Finder was extensively reworked in 2001 from the file manager in NeXT to be much closer to the original Finder, and most of the complaints here are about UI decisions taken from the original Finder, released in 1984. That predates Windows (not just Windows Explorer, which is from ten years later), Nautilus (created by Andy Hertzfeld of the original Mac team…

> Finder was extensively reworked in 2001 from the file manager in NeXT to be much closer to the original Finder, and most of the complaints here are about UI decisions taken from the original Finder, released in 1984.

Why would they ignore all the lessons learned between 1984 and 2001?

That's the reason why most people complain about Finder today.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#199

Post by NinjaTrance »

lungeloslx wrote: post #149

Each and every comment that is in agreement here is a bunch of former Windows users who wanted to move Explorer to Mac with them. I have used MacOS for over 15 years. Finder has never stood in my way. I don’t even know what “see the file system” means. Too many words to say “I don’t know how to organize my files on a computer but I consider myself a power user”

> Each and every comment that is in agreement here is a bunch of former Windows users who wanted to move Explorer to Mac with them

Linux users also agree that Finder sucks.

Re: Finder is so frustrating and has been since day one

#200

Post by NinjaTrance »

Sat_P wrote: post #145

Since buying an M1 Mac at launch, I’ve always been able to find most things with Finder. Prior to that, I was a Windows user since school in the 1990s, and windows search was absolutely useless. So glad I moved to Mac.

Yes, the search in Finder is better than in Windows.

But the UI is worse.

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